Some reflections after the Super Bowl (1 Viewer)

guillermo

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We have the common cliché that defense win championships. This is partially true. I will say that an exceptional unit (offense or defense) paired with a capable opposite unit, will win you a championship.

Running the game is the key when you are playing with a lead, but when you have a sub-par pass game, you are in trouble in close games and when losing. I still can' t believe Shanahan didn't use Samuel and Sanders more. Samuel was the best player of the niners offense, by far.

We tend to get frustrated by the gambles Sean Payton will make during the games. Yes, I hate them at the time, but I welcome and understand them. Just look at the game yesterday, Andy Reid played to win the game. He gambled twice on fourth down during the first half. In both occasions, he would certainly get 3 points, but he still gambled. He got 7 points on one of those gambles, and only 3 in the second one. Shanahan, on the other side, kept a conservative clock management at the end of the first half. His main goal at that point was to have the last drive of the first half. It almost worked, with the infamous Kittle pass interference he would have gotten points. But being more aggressive, he could have at least a couple more chances to go there.

Regarding the saints, and for the many people complaining about our offense, we should not forget we scored 46 points on that San Francisco defense. That game was lost on a bunch of trick plays that frankly, we were not prepared for. That won't happen again.

We are not that far, we have the team to go far once again, with or without Drew. The key is to keep as many pieces as possible, and to find the way to replace the ones that will go other places on higher salaries.

I am very optimistic, regardless of what happens this off-season.
 

dutar76

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The team with the most points wins the game. That sounds like a smart-arse comment, but it's the truth. A smothering defense does you no good if the offense can't score. A high powered offense lighting up the scoreboard only works if the defense keeps the other team's offense from doing the same. Balance and complimentary football wins games and championships.

We've gone years with an elite offense paired with a historically terrible defense. Now we have an above average offense and an above average defense. We can beat any team, any day, anywhere. That doesn't mean that we will win. I just means that we have the roster to win. When we don't win, I always remind myself that the other team is full of professional football players and coaches who get paid to win, just like our players and coaches.
 

Saint Lattimore

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I didn’t watch the game, but I did see the “highlights” and hear about how it went. The refs play a huge role in any game, and an even bigger role in big games.
In a SuperBowl that I absolutely did not care at all about, I’m left feeling like the NFL helps create the outcomes that best benefit their brand... and now they have a ring on their finger of their next “golden boy”
 
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guillermo

guillermo

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The team with the most points wins the game. That sounds like a smart-arse comment, but it's the truth. A smothering defense does you no good if the offense can't score. A high powered offense lighting up the scoreboard only works if the defense keeps the other team's offense from doing the same. Balance and complimentary football wins games and championships.

We've gone years with an elite offense paired with a historically terrible defense. Now we have an above average offense and an above average defense. We can beat any team, any day, anywhere. That doesn't mean that we will win. I just means that we have the roster to win. When we don't win, I always remind myself that the other team is full of professional football players and coaches who get paid to win, just like our players and coaches.

And continue with the smart-arse comments, we should realize that 31 owners and general managers are not saints fans, and won't work for us.

Our expectations should be for our General Manager and Head Coach to build a competitive team, that will avoid downfalls and keep a steady competition level to constantly make the playoffs. And there is where we are now.

Seasons are complicated not only by game planning but by injuries and bad breaks. More then any other team we know we can loose a game by a bad bounce or a bad call.

Once we get in the playoffs, then anything can happen. This year, unfortunately, I think we arrived there mentally and physically tired.

A week off would have been a big difference, but this year San Francisco had all the luck, specially in the last 3 games.

I think it is time for us to get those breaks.
 

dutar76

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Our expectations should be for our General Manager and Head Coach to build a competitive team, that will avoid downfalls and keep a steady competition level to constantly make the playoffs. And there is where we are now.

I've been saying this. All I "expect" is for our FO and coaches to build a roster that can compete for championships. ML and SP along with Fontenot and Ireland have given us this for the past 3 seasons. That's all I can ask for. They don't owe us a superbowl. If that's the requirement to consider a team successful, then there's 31 crap teams every year and only one good one. That's just not how I see it. The season is the season. The playoffs are langiappe, and the superbowl is a super bonus. Winning the superbowl is the ultimate goal of course, but a LOT more goes into lifting the trophy than the coaches and players have control over or in many cases, even a say in.

A fluke play? Those happen. And people actually win money at casinos every once in a while.

Getting beat in over-time, basically because of a deep bomb low percentage throw to a top end WR who's going against a back-up CB because the elite CB he's in for got injured in the game? That's why they say you're only as good as your back-ups...

Getting massacred, raped, robbed, and cheated by refs in the most obvious fashion ever shown in live televised sports history? No further comment needed here.

I relish wins and I love that my team has won WAY more games than they've lost in recent years giving me much to cheer about and many many weeks of happiness. I hate the loses, but I try to take them in stride. (except for that home loss to atlanta... that was disgusting)
 

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I'm not that optimistic because so much is tied to Drew and his future. We are going lose a key part (starter or backup) this off season and I'm worried about that. The only reassuring thing is that we do have an overall playoff team.
We have the common cliché that defense win championships. This is partially true. I will say that an exceptional unit (offense or defense) paired with a capable opposite unit, will win you a championship.

Running the game is the key when you are playing with a lead, but when you have a sub-par pass game, you are in trouble in close games and when losing. I still can' t believe Shanahan didn't use Samuel and Sanders more. Samuel was the best player of the niners offense, by far.

We tend to get frustrated by the gambles Sean Payton will make during the games. Yes, I hate them at the time, but I welcome and understand them. Just look at the game yesterday, Andy Reid played to win the game. He gambled twice on fourth down during the first half. In both occasions, he would certainly get 3 points, but he still gambled. He got 7 points on one of those gambles, and only 3 in the second one. Shanahan, on the other side, kept a conservative clock management at the end of the first half. His main goal at that point was to have the last drive of the first half. It almost worked, with the infamous Kittle pass interference he would have gotten points. But being more aggressive, he could have at least a couple more chances to go there.

Regarding the saints, and for the many people complaining about our offense, we should not forget we scored 46 points on that San Francisco defense. That game was lost on a bunch of trick plays that frankly, we were not prepared for. That won't happen again.

We are not that far, we have the team to go far once again, with or without Drew. The key is to keep as many pieces as possible, and to find the way to replace the ones that will go other places on higher salaries.

I am very optimistic, regardless of what happens this off-season.
 

dutar76

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I didn’t watch the game, but I did see the “highlights” and hear about how it went. The refs play a huge role in any game, and an even bigger role in big games.
In a SuperBowl that I absolutely did not care at all about, I’m left feeling like the NFL helps create the outcomes that best benefit their brand... and now they have a ring on their finger of their next “golden boy”

It may not have been obvious to 90% of the people watching the Superbowl that the refs got more "involved" once it began to look like the 49ers might walk away with it. But as a Saints fan, I've seen behind the curtain and I know that Oz is a big fat pasty bald-headed liar. So I saw it happening. Actually expected it to happen sooner.

My wife asked me why the 49ers weren't trying to score in that last minute drive before halftime. I told her that it could be Shanahan attempting to keep the score reasonable as long as possible so that the refs didn't get that call from New York until closer to the end of the game where anything could happen. Wild theory, but it fits. :)
 

RJ in Lafayette

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I agree with nearly every word in the original post.

For me, the story of the Saints in 2018 and in 2019 was largely injuries--in 2018, to the offensive line and to Rankins, and in 2019, to the defensive front seven. Both San Francisco and Kansas City were healthy teams yesterday. So incidentally was the 2009 Saints that won a Super Bowl. And overall the ball did not bounce our way and we did not get the calls at the end of the 2018 season and throughout 2019. It seems extraordinary how many times we were so close to getting a week-one bye in the playoffs at the end of the 2019 season--the Rams almost beating the 49ers, Seattle inches away from beating the 49ers, the Lions almost upsetting the Packers.

Having noted the injuries on defense this year, I must also note that our defense must play better at the end of games. For three consecutive years, our season ended in a last-moment playoff loss because our defense at a critical time failed--the touchdown at the end of the Minnesota game, at the end of the fourth quarter and then in overtime in last year's NFC championship game, and in overtime in our loss to Minnesota this year. And there was also the critical game this season with San Francisco, and our defense again failing at the game's end.

My concern--aside from the questions of who will be our quarterback and, if Brees, how much more diminution in arm strength Brees may show--is that we did not get substantial production from our 2018 and 2019 drafts, and that we again are drafting late and that we do not have a second-round pick. When teams have consecutive drafts that are not terribly productive, the lack of young cheap talents eventually shows.
 

dutar76

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Having noted the injuries on defense this year, I must also note that our defense must play better at the end of games. For three consecutive years, our season ended in a last-moment playoff loss because our defense at a critical time failed--the touchdown at the end of the Minnesota game, at the end of the fourth quarter and then in overtime in last year's NFC championship game, and in overtime in our loss to Minnesota this year. And there was also the critical game this season with San Francisco, and our defense again failing at the game's end.

I'd love it if someone who knows how to google up obscure stats would go find the success rate of 2 minute offenses over the past 10 years. I've said this on here before. It almost seems like in today's NFL, a 2 minute offense scores almost every time. And when it doesn't it seems like it's usually the offense that does themselves in with bad throws, dropped passes, fumbles, unecessary INTs, etc... not the defense holding or making a stop.

We've even been the beneficiary of this quirk of the game many times. More and more these days, it seems that in close games, the team with the ball last wins the game.

I do think that this is explainable. Vs a 2 minute offense, defenses tend to play loose, often giving up the middle of the field, allowing yards, but keeping the clock running. This allows the offense to march the ball down the field almost unchallenged. The defenses do tighten up once the ball enters the redzone, but at that point, it's 50/50. Then are the times that all the offense needs is a FG. So the defense doesn't even get the benefit of buckling down in the redzone. At this point it's on the FG kicker and a few icing Time Outs if the defense has them. When this happens, it's probably more like 75/25.

Teams play defense one way the entire game, then swap to only defending the deep zones and the flats once it goes into the 2-minute drill. So the defensive strategy that held for most of the game gets tossed to the side and the "hardly ever works" defense is implemented.

Teams spend a LOT of time in camp and during the season working on 2-minute offense. And in the game, the 2-minute offense has a huge advantage over the defense. Even penalties favor the offense in this situation more than in other game-situations, and flags are already slanted towards helping offenses.

Just some thoughts.
 
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guillermo

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I'm not that optimistic because so much is tied to Drew and his future. We are going lose a key part (starter or backup) this off season and I'm worried about that. The only reassuring thing is that we do have an overall playoff team.

Obviously, this is the big challenge of the off-season. While here at the forum we are distracted with nonsensical trades, I think the front office is ranking which players are absolutely keepers, the players that will carry a salary that is over our budget, and the players that will leave but we can replace.

We are not on a rebuilding mode, but we still need to have a multi-year strategical plan to replace the young players that will be leaving. Our minor cap space and draft picks should be considered.


My concern--aside from the questions of who will be our quarterback and, if Brees, how much more diminution in arm strength Brees may show--is that we did not get substantial production from our 2018 and 2019 drafts, and that we again are drafting late and that we do not have a second-round pick. When teams have consecutive drafts that are not terribly productive, the lack of young cheap talents eventually shows.

I think the good news is that we found a possible replacement for either Bell or Williams in Gardner-Johnson.

We need to be patient with the draft, and get as many picks as possible to replace the young ones that we won't be able to afford a second contract. We should not forget that the best way to have a healthy cap is to have as many players as possible playing under their rookie deals.

If at the end, we loose some of Teddy, Williams, Bell, Onyematta, Rankins, etc, we may get attractive compensatory picks if we don't decide to spend on middle of the road free agents.

We should concentrate on hiring players that will be released by their teams, since they don't count on the compensatory pick game.
 
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It may not have been obvious to 90% of the people watching the Superbowl that the refs got more "involved" once it began to look like the 49ers might walk away with it. But as a Saints fan, I've seen behind the curtain and I know that Oz is a big fat pasty bald-headed liar. So I saw it happening. Actually expected it to happen sooner.

My wife asked me why the 49ers weren't trying to score in that last minute drive before halftime. I told her that it could be Shanahan attempting to keep the score reasonable as long as possible so that the refs didn't get that call from New York until closer to the end of the game where anything could happen. Wild theory, but it fits. :)

My fiancee, who knows very little about football, noticed that the officials were calling the game for KC when they got behind by 10 in the 2nd half. She asked if the NFL was like wrestling - lol. Told her I don't think they rig games except for biggest playoff screwing of all time last year, but imho that the officials are ordered by the NFL to keep games close in the 2nd half is possible.
 

dutar76

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My fiancee, who knows very little about football, noticed that the officials were calling the game for KC when they got behind by 10 in the 2nd half. She asked if the NFL was like wrestling - lol. Told her I don't think they rig games except for biggest playoff screwing of all time last year, but imho that the officials are ordered by the NFL to keep games close in the 2nd half is possible.

Screwing(s) plural. KC got dusted in the AFCCG last season as well. The video evidence was there, but simply didn't compare to the blatant and obvious intentional screw-job we got.

My only real question with last seasons' AFCCG and NFCCG is whether it was an outcome and superbowl matchup the NFL was after... or was it simply trying to get the games into overtime.
 

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