Song of Ice & Fire: GoT Spoilers Within (2 Viewers)

[Tapxe]

I think the GreyJoys will only be a big enough factor to come invade the reach and stir up the reach.

Its pretty clear Dany is never sailing across the narrow sea. We are basically killing time for Drogon to grow as large as Balerion, and she is going to ride in there scorched earth. Never knew why I felt it would end any other way.

You may be correct, but it seems there is still the Greyjoy fleet if there's any of the unsullied left to ferry across. She will definitely need loyal protectors as the dragon while very powerful, won't keep her from all harm. Those could easily come from allies made once she returns as well tho.

 

[egautr1]

Jesus, talk about taking the show down a different path.

Prince Doran dead! Aegon, is faegon I guess. I can't say i'm surprised. Trystane dead in the books to Dragons and they needed to clean him up, plus Tyrion never meets Aegon on his way to Dany. I kinda figured they would write out Doran of the show, just disappointed they filled it with Sand Snakes. But I have grown to trust the writers of this show, all will be explained, and probably make for good T.V. when all is said and done.

Lats night I realized just how many storylines they have running on this show, and its probably a good thing to eliminate most of the stuff they did if it doesn't tie into the end game. Which I still thing ends up Tyrion/Jon Snow/Dany in some form or fashion. Dorne is simply there to strike up a war with the Lannisters, and I think the GreyJoys will only be a big enough factor to come invade the reach and stir up the reach.

Right now despite their private worlds falling apart (Cersei, Margery, Loras, Jamie) The houses are on stable ground. Well entrenched in their respective cities. I doubt we get anymore in depth characters I.E. Euron, Victarion, Darkstar, The gravedigger, Lady Stoneheart. We are going to have to unfortunately wait for GRRM to get off his lazy *** and write conclusions to these characters himself. But getting back to it, the show has a ton of open plots and they all moved very slow because we pretty much got one scene of each.

I felt only Sansa made any good ground, was happy to see her meet up and accept Brienne. If only because it now ties their storyline together, and I didn't particularly like either so we get both out of the way now in one dose.

The red woman, scene started so good... way to kill a boner HBO!

The Sand snakes are comical to me, not in a good way either. I am disappointed in the story turn, I thought Prince Doran was playing his position perfectly.

I have always liked Tyrion and Varys, enjoy seeing them together in Mereen, Tyrion is my favorite character on the show. He continues to play the part perfectly. Was disappointed to see the ships burning in the bay. Stuck in Mereen still, this plot is going nowhere. Its pretty clear Dany is never sailing across the narrow sea. We are basically killing time for Drogon to grow as large as Balerion, and she is going to ride in there scorched earth. Never knew why I felt it would end any other way.

Poor Arya, can't see, girl from temple comes over, beats her ***, "see you tomorrow".....

Incase you've forgotten, Bran is alive still.

I didn't think it was a particularly good episode, kinda forgettable, but the writers have earned a ton of leeway. Will be greatly anticipating next week.

Good review. I agree with pretty much all you said. I too thought it wasn't a great episode, too many storylines with each only getting like 5 minutes. But it is a season premiere and they wanted to catch us up on everything that is happenning. Remember, we didn't see anything with Sam/gilly, the Iron Islanders, and Bran. The next few episodes should set up the flow of the season.

Best scene was Sansa accepting Brienne's allegiance. House Stark is back! I really loved that scene as it showed her accepting her place as the oldest Stark heir and reclaiming what is hers. Anyone else think we get a little Sansa/Pod thing going on? They kind of shared a little look......

Worst scene was in Dorne. After reading the books Martin puts a great emphasis on the fierceness of House Martell and espcially the abilities of Areo Hotah. To see them both go down like that to terribly developed characters in the sand snakes was lame, IMO. Hotah is made out to be a Bad@## in the books and he goes down with one stab to the back from a little girl, and Doran gets taken out by Oberyn's paramour??? I thought that was weak. And I saw Trystan's death coming as soon as he put his back to the other girl. The show has sure made out the Martells to be a bunch of idiots. And the dornishmen look like a bunch of traitors to their own lords. Is the paramour gonna take over? One of the illegitimate girls of Oberyn??? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

We will see where the other storylines go, but I, and I think a lot of others, want more from what is happening at the wall. Hopefully they show more of that next week, and we get to check in on Bran.

 

[SuperQuincy]

You may be correct, but it seems there is still the Greyjoy fleet if there's any of the unsullied left to ferry across. She will definitely need loyal protectors as the dragon while very powerful, won't keep her from all harm. Those could easily come from allies made once she returns as well tho.

I think she is going to get the foothold of Targaryen supporters that was meant for Aegon/Faegon. I can't see any of the Dothraki or natives of essos taking up her cause.

I think all the supporters she will need are in westeros already.

The only way I see her having the Iron fleet is if the Euron/Daario theory indeed holds true.

Tyrion/Varys/Jorah are never going back, Braavos, Volantis, wherever whores go... anywhere but Westeros.

It will be interesting to see where they end up, they have a part to play, and it will be major. But this will play out with Ice (Jon) and Fire (Dany).

I think that Syrio Forel is the faceless man still teaching Arya.

Would be awesome if it came to pass.

He never dies on screen or on page and is just assumed dead.

 

[SuperQuincy]

Onto a serious question though. Knowing what you know now.

Melisandre w/the amulet ON!... would you?

 

[v3kt0r]

Onto a serious question though. Knowing what you know now.

Melisandre w/the amulet ON!... would you?

As long as Mance Rayder isn't under there, sure.

 

[Tapxe]

I think she is going to get the foothold of Targaryen supporters that was meant for Aegon/Faegon. I can't see any of the Dothraki or natives of essos taking up her cause.

I think all the supporters she will need are in westeros already.

The only way I see her having the Iron fleet is if the Euron/Daario theory indeed holds true.

Tyrion/Varys/Jorah are never going back, Braavos, Volantis, wherever whores go... anywhere but Westeros.

It will be interesting to see where they end up, they have a part to play, and it will be major. But this will play out with Ice (Jon) and Fire (Dany).

She has the Unsullied as well as Dario's crew. I agree little chance on a dothraki horde, but maybe they leave Mereen and take what ever slaves want to go with them to be freed?

 

[livefromDC]

I think there's 3 or 5 things that were discussed in the books as things a warg should never do. Anyone remember them? I know one for sure. The first listed here.
1. Warging into another human. (broken by Bran)
2. Warging into certain other animals is off limits too.
3. Eating as the animal, since it makes you feel nourished your physical body hasn't eaten. (Also broken by Bran)

Not sure about the last 2 and I feel like there's 2 I'm missing. Like Warging into a dead or dying animal or something. No, Warging to escape death because you can't go back.
Anyone remember?

 

[SuperQuincy]

Great episode!

Tyrion finally has his purpose! Tyrion has a wealth of knowledge and history is the head, and knows as much about Dragons as any living person. I don't think Tyrion is a secret targaryen, but his purpose, is just as important. He is going to help Dany tame/train these dragons.

Arya story progressing, slowly, but this one is going to pay off. I am very intrigued by the faceless men.

The Ramsey turn had me kind of shocked, but I guess I just don't see Roose givng him that leeway, I don't know if the show touches base on it or if it acknowledged, but Roose knows Ramsey killed his first son and heir Domeric. No way he would let his guard down at that moment. But nothing Ramsey does surprises me. When he asked to hold the baby, you just have this awful feeling come over you, like you already know what he capable of, and yet uneasy because your thinking he's probably capable of more. The North is really getting interesting. Jon Snow is alive, has a wilding army, is free from his vows (I would say). But Jon also knows the white walkers are coming and I can't see him just abandoning the wall and going south. I really have no clue how this is going to play out.

Oh and did I mention, Jon Snow is alive! I had this feeling that he would not get revived by Mel because that was what everyone has suspected right from the moment he died. Mel will revive him. Well she did, but I was happy, I really like Giantsbane and some of the wilding characters, as well as Davos so i'm glad we will continue to get large doses of these characters as they become part of Jon's circle.

Bran is back! I absolutely loved the flashback. I really can't wait to see how this starts to unfold. HBO said early on that they would not be doing flashbacks, so I was curious how they would advance this story, which has Bran spending most of his time in flashbacks. Glad they changed stance, and hopefully we see some of the stuff from the rebellion. I'd personally love to know what happened at the tower of joy, and i'd love to see Robert vs Rhaegar on the trident. It also occured to me that this very well could be how we find out Jon Snow's parents. I still think the arch bishop is Howland Reed, and he is a dear friend of Ned Stark and the only man alive that knows what happened at the Tower of Joy.

Theon is going home... stay where your are boy, your not welcome at Pyke! THE STORM HAS ARRIVED! Euron is awesome! Balon's mad, damphair madder, but Euron is the maddest of them all. Finally we are going to get some real iron born on the show. I was scared they would cut them out after we got nothing season after season. But they wanted to dive right into the Greyjoys, rather than have Balon die back in season 3 when he would have in the book. It would have added these characters to quickly and watered down these story lines. Looks like we have a kingsmoot to attend. The only problem is they already used most of that dialect on the bridge.

"Godless? Why, Aeron, I am the godliest man ever to raise sail! You serve one god, Damphair, but I have served ten thousand. From Ib to Asshai, when men see my sails, they pray"

I can't wait for next week!

I think there's 3 or 5 things that were discussed in the books as things a warg should never do. Anyone remember them? I know one for sure. The first listed here.
1. Warging into another human. (broken by Bran)
2. Warging into certain other animals is off limits too.
3. Eating as the animal, since it makes you feel nourished your physical body hasn't eaten. (Also broken by Bran)

Not sure about the last 2 and I feel like there's 2 I'm missing. Like Warging into a dead or dying animal or something. No, Warging to escape death because you can't go back.
Anyone remember?

The wildings have adopted a set of guidelines, and Wargs who do these thinsg are considered abominations. Again, no rules or anything, like not talking about warg club, but these things are seen as disgusting.

1. Warg into an animal having Sex
2. Warg into an animal eating human flesh
3. Warg into a human mind

If an animal dies while a human is in its mind, its said to take a toll on the warg, however they can survive. If the warg takes control of an animal while dying, he will be trapped in the animal and their human mind will wither away as time goes on. Orell wargs into his eagle while he is dying and was responsible for maiming Jon Snow's face.

 

[Tapxe]

I too am intrigued by the Bran story line. Especially where Meera fits in. She does bare a striking resemblance to one recently revived character and I'm curious about the dialog indicating Bran needs her. I wonder if she'll be Bran's connection back to the living world eventually.

I've always sort of imagined Arya warging into Nymeria as the head of her wolf army. They've eluded to that in the books a bit, but never mentioned in the show. Guess we'll see as the big reveal in the books was her blind fighting technique and that seems close.

 

[SuperQuincy]

I too am intrigued by the Bran story line. Especially where Meera fits in. She does bare a striking resemblance to one recently revived character and I'm curious about the dialog indicating Bran needs her. I wonder if she'll be Bran's connection back to the living world eventually.

I've always sort of imagined Arya warging into Nymeria as the head of her wolf army. They've eluded to that in the books a bit, but never mentioned in the show. Guess we'll see as the big reveal in the books was her blind fighting technique and that seems close.

Meera being Jon twin and separated at birth, Howland took Meera, and Ned took Jon. That was an interesting theory when I read it. The Bran storyline is just interesting because I have no clue how it will play out. And that line that he will never walk again, but he will fly has always stuck with me. Its been touched on in this thread as well as other places, but if possibility of him warging into dragons or something remains very real. But I am really interested in the possibility the flashbacks bring.

Side note, where the hell is Benjen! Its time for us to get something there, i'm pretty sure him being cold hands theory had to many holes punched in it to be valid.

 

[Sandman]

Looks like Rickon will take the place of Fake Arya in the pink letter from Ramsey to Jon Snow. Remember, he writes the letter to Snow saying, I have Arya and Winterfell. If you want her, come and get her. Snow is about to go attack Winterfell and that is when he is stabbed by the Knights Watch.

Also, remember in the books, Snow tells Stannis about the more savage tribes in the wild of the North that would be loyal to the Starks. They are part of Stannis' army in the books. In the show, I think Snow will rally them with the wildlings, while Sansa comes from the south with Sweet Robin and the knights of the Vale. They will take on the Boltons, Karstarks, and Umbers. The Manderlys will side with the Starks, in my opinion.

The show is deviating substantially from the books on what is going on with the North.

 

[SuperQuincy]

Wow Rickon is back, and got no help from the Umber's. Catlyn trying to protect her daughters has really screwed up the Starks hold in the north. Very short sighted and selfish of her to release the King Slayer. Downright foolish how it has come to pass. Put Robb in an awful spot, killed Karstark for his crimes against captive Lannisters, did nothing to his mother for her crimes against the North. Really puts them all on shaky ground no matter when they go. Poor Shaggydog, and Rickon is in the hands of the worst person imaginable. I already feel bad for the kid, Jon or someone better get there, Rickon is the Stark I though would come out of this ruling Winterfell so not surprised he has turned up there (Jon is a Targ R + L, Robb is dead, Bran has other things in store, Rickon is the one to carry on the Stark name IMO)

Jon alive, and seems very much the same, except I was kinda shocked he left his post on the nights watch. It had been mentioned, and discussed in this thread multiple times if his death released him from his vows. So I can't say that aspect surprised me so much as I convinced myself Jon knows where the real threat is coming from, and I just did not see him leaving the wall. I was wrong there, and as I alluded to above, I really hope he makes a b-line for winterfell with the wildling army. I was convinced before, but am now almost certain that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's child. I am really kinda glad he walked away because it goes against what I thought, and i'm interested how it plays out now.

Bran/T.O.J. I liked this scene, I was kinda let down that we did not go in the tower and they left it to be continued... but I liked the scene, as reminded in the intro, how many men had to die over this one decision. All the wars and fighting over choices that ultimately led to that tower. I'd like to take a guess where Bran's story, but its all to cryptic, to even make sense of right now. Just going to have to wait and see how this plays out.

Arya got her montage and is now a faceless ma..wom.. ehh... no one. Completely in uncharted territory here, and I have no clue where this is going. Was happy the girl got her eyes back, and like mention of the Hound. No way this story ends without a heavyweight brawl between The Hound and The Mountain! Have been interested and going back in the books going over the grave digger and elder brother chapters. I have little doubt the grave digger is the Hound, less credence to the elder brother being Rhaegar, but it is an interesting theory none the less.

Not trying to rock the boat, but I didn't think the rest of it was "great" t.v. and with it all in the same episode it kinda made it feel a little slow. (but that usually makes for a better one the following week so i'll take the good with the bad)

Varys giving a little inside glimpse as to hy he is the spider I liked, but Missandei is good for looking at, and that's about it, and grey worm is lame too. Tyrion is ruined on the screen by the presence of these two. Tyrion doesn't need much to be good, this exact scene played out with Bronn and Shae and was infinitely better. Everything about meereen has been kinda bad, and its like that in the books, and it starting to look more and more like a lost cause trying to rule there. This all seems like pointless filler for a story that will be abandoned for the greener pastures of westeros sooner than later, so please make it sooner.

Same goes for Dany, I seriously care so little for what is going on with her in the books and the show, its mind numbing. I think that's why I so desperately would like Daario to be Euron /or in alliance with. Give that whole drawn out storyline some much needed bite to it.

Cersi is worse than ever, Jamie becoming unbearable again hanging out in Kings landing with his sister, reverting to the Jamie of old that everyone loved to hate. These are the people responsible for putting abominations on the throne, and tossing Bran out of a window. You think that Cersei and Jamie just need a comeuppance and all will be well, they get it, and are just worse than ever.

Also thought the Sam/gilly stuff was pretty meh, and the high sparrow, tommen stuff was slow and draw out, although those scenes tend to have a great deal of foreshadowing going on in them. Like Sam taking them to Hornhill, and without guessing to much, i'd say it puts them right in the path of an Ironborn Invasion of the reach. Curious to see if Samwell indeed meets Jaqen H'ghar in old town and just what the Alchemist is up to.

Looking forward to next week, where we hopefully get us a kingsmoot.

Looks like Rickon will take the place of Fake Arya in the pink letter from Ramsey to Jon Snow. Remember, he writes the letter to Snow saying, I have Arya and Winterfell. If you want her, come and get her. Snow is about to go attack Winterfell and that is when he is stabbed by the Knights Watch.

Also, remember in the books, Snow tells Stannis about the more savage tribes in the wild of the North that would be loyal to the Starks. They are part of Stannis' army in the books. In the show, I think Snow will rally them with the wildlings, while Sansa comes from the south with Sweet Robin and the knights of the Vale. They will take on the Boltons, Karstarks, and Umbers. The Manderlys will side with the Starks, in my opinion.

The show is deviating substantially from the books on what is going on with the North.

I don't know, but its plausible. They could split up Jeyne Pool (Fake Arya) into 2 characters for the shows purposes, but she was clearly is Sansa, and she (as did Jeyne) escaped with Theon. John never goes to winterfell, he sends Mance Rayder (who is dead in the show) to go save his Sister. Stannis is marching on winterfell in the books.

I think we are in uncharted waters on the show, I don't think Rickon is going to get rolled into anyone, this is where Rickon has been.

 

[crosswatt]

Anyone thinking that Melisandre keeps asking about the other side because she's expecting to have to be the modern day Nissa Nissa when the time comes?

 

[SuperQuincy]

Anyone thinking that Melisandre keeps asking about the other side because she's expecting to have to be the modern day Nissa Nissa when the time comes?

It has crossed my mind.

But Azor Ahai loved his wife Nissa Nissa (for those who have no idea who she is), and it was actually a sacrifice for him. Mel does not fit that script. She is asking about the other side because Jon just came back from the dead, and if she didn't ask, Davos certainly had it on his short list. I know i'd be asking.

I honestly don't know where Mel fits in anymore. I figured she was still at the wall in the books to bring Jon back. But I haven't given much thought beyond that. I think she definitely was wrong about Stannis and I think even she feels that, and has for awhile. I think she started her search at Dragon Stone, under the guide of the prophecy's line of the waking dragons from stone (something along those lines) and when she got there she molded the prophecy to fit Stannis and it led her astray.

The Prince who was Promised, Azor Ahai, and the last hero also don't necessarily have to be all one and the same. Mel thinks they are, but she appears to get the correct visions in the flames, but she misinterprets them all the time. They very well could be 3 different people, and even the 3 heads of the dragon. Aemon alludes to Dany being the prince that was promised and says the old translations male and female are interchangeable.

The house of undying really touched on a lot of this stuff and was very crucial to foreshadowing the story, Aemon and Mel's dialogue from a dance with dragons is also interesting if you care about the Azor Ahai, Prince who was Promised stuff.

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

Looks like Rickon will take the place of Fake Arya in the pink letter from Ramsey to Jon Snow. Remember, he writes the letter to Snow saying, I have Arya and Winterfell. If you want her, come and get her. Snow is about to go attack Winterfell and that is when he is stabbed by the Knights Watch.

No - in the pink letter Ramsay claims he has Mance Rayder. He wants his bride (fArya, actually Jeyne Poole), whom he assumed fled with Theon and had arrived at the Wall, as well as several others at the Wall (Melisandre, Selyse, etc.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2clfz7/spoilers_all_theory_discussion_the_mystery_of_the/

Also, remember in the books, Snow tells Stannis about the more savage tribes in the wild of the North that would be loyal to the Starks. They are part of Stannis' army in the books. In the show, I think Snow will rally them with the wildlings, while Sansa comes from the south with Sweet Robin and the knights of the Vale. They will take on the Boltons, Karstarks, and Umbers. The Manderlys will side with the Starks, in my opinion.

Except Sansa is nowhere near the Vale and is headed to Castle Black.

The show is deviating substantially from the books on what is going on with the North.

Yeah, that ship sailed a long time ago when they swapped out fArya for Sansa (why would Littlefinger do that)