Sponsors, Politicians Bail From Women's March Over Anti-Semitism (1 Viewer)

DadsDream

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I guess it's time to ditch the pink hats? :idee-puis-non:

When the organizers of the Women's March on Washington attended Nation of Islam meetings and praised Louis Farrakhan on social media , the Democratic National Committee and Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla) pulled the plug on participation and sponsorship this week and others are following suit.

Wasserman Schultz, who is Jewish, told USA Today:

Farrakhan has a long history of anti-Semitism. He has said that Hitler was a great man, compared Jews to termites, and tweeted about “the Satanic Jew and the Synagogue of Satan.” What is more, he does not hide his bigotry, regularly maligning women and the LGBTQ community.

It should not be difficult to condemn this hate speech and the person who constantly voices it.

Yet, at almost every turn, Mallory has failed to clearly denounce Farrakhan. Instead, she has attended Farrakhan’s speeches and posted her support for him on social media, referring to him as the “GOAT” — or, the Greatest Of All Time. Just this week, she was repeatedly asked on national television to clearly condemn him, and she instead dodged the question, taking issue with the words he chose and the fact that Minister Farrakhan is male, rather than acknowledging the hurtfulness of his rhetoric toward Jews and the LGBTQ community.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...r-tamika-mallory-farrakhan-column/2602396002/
 
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Saintman2884

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Guido, the left in general doesn't always kick out all the loudmouths, rabble-rousers, extremist voices as much as you claim or infer. Granted, they do a better job of self-policing then right-wing similar organizations or far-right associations do but as you astutely pointed out in an earlier post, the Left in general and IMHO, European and British left-wing parties and individuals especially so tend to have more of a Big Tent sort of appeal, similar to libertarians but bigger where anyone or any organization that's sympathetic to your cause or some aspect of it is let in and allowed to stay in. Only problem is, some groups are easier and accessible to kick out of the tent than others especially as time goes on the original leaders or organizers discover their root core base relies heavily upon these type of groups. And sometimes, some of these groups bring with them huge shirtloads of controversy, hateful rhetoric towards Jews, Israel, modern secular government in general, LGBT rights, Farrakhan isn't a friend of gays and lesbians or same-sex marriages, or gays and lesbians adopting children, don't be under any illusions. He's also in deep with a oppressive, celebrity Hollywood cult called Scientology, run by a small, bigoted L. Ron Hubbard-esque fanatic David Miscavige. The NOI and Scientology make strange bed fellows but Farrakhan has praised Hubbard's Dianetics as a "enlightening, wonderful tool" to read and attacked ex-Scientologists like Leah Remini, Mike Rinder, and ex-Scientologists who've claimed Church of Scientology ruined their lives, threatened financial ruin if they left and when they did they went through on it, ordered remaining family members to "disconnect" with them--threatening them with disconnection if they refused also. Scientology's leader's ex-wife, Shelly Miscavige hasn't been seen in public for nearly 13 years and no one seems to know or have any idea where she might be or has been since 2006 other than vague rumors she's voluntarily exiling herself in a private heavily guarded Scientology facility in northern California.
 
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Saintman2884

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Guys, what in the hell has Steve King done constructively for his constituents over past 3 years other than being a fringe, loudmouth? He's an empty suit shouting out meaningless, trite nonsense all the while he remains just a talking head. Al Franken did far more for his constituents as a Senator from Minnesota before his MeToo-influenced fall from grace in 2017. And honestly, summing up his time as senatorial lawmaker, Franken was average at best. A left-wing centered talking head the DNC used occasionally to make public speeches or ask for campaign contributions from registered voters. They used his past celebrity status as an SNL comedian, writer, and obnoxious smart-arse to prop him up and make him seem or feel like he was important. But his actual accomplishments compared to his Republican and Democrat contemporaries were disappointing and marginal if we're critically analyzing his 8 years as a senator from Minnesota.
 
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guidomerkinsrules

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Guido, the left in general doesn't always kick out all the loudmouths, rabble-rousers, extremist voices as much as you claim or infer. Granted, they do a better job of self-policing then right-wing similar organizations or far-right associations do but as you astutely pointed out in an earlier post, the Left in general and IMHO, European and British left-wing parties and individuals especially so tend to have more of a Big Tent sort of appeal, similar to libertarians but bigger where anyone or any organization that's sympathetic to your cause or some aspect of it is let in and allowed to stay in. Only problem is, some groups are easier and accessible to kick out of the tent than others especially as time goes on the original leaders or organizers discover their root core base relies heavily upon these type of groups. And sometimes, some of these groups bring with them huge shirtloads of controversy, hateful rhetoric towards Jews, Israel, modern secular government in general, LGBT rights, Farrakhan isn't a friend of gays and lesbians or same-sex marriages, or gays and lesbians adopting children, don't be under any illusions. He's also in deep with a oppressive, celebrity Hollywood cult called Scientology, run by a small, bigoted L. Ron Hubbard-esque fanatic David Miscavige. The NOI and Scientology make strange bed fellows but Farrakhan has praised Hubbard's Dianetics as a "enlightening, wonderful tool" to read and attacked ex-Scientologists like Leah Remini, Mike Rinder, and ex-Scientologists who've claimed Church of Scientology ruined their lives, threatened financial ruin if they left and when they did they went through on it, ordered remaining family members to "disconnect" with them--threatening them with disconnection if they refused also. Scientology's leader's ex-wife, Shelly Miscavige hasn't been seen in public for nearly 13 years and no one seems to know or have any idea where she might be or has been since 2006 other than vague rumors she's voluntarily exiling herself in a private heavily guarded Scientology facility in northern California.
make no mistake - i am no fan of farrakhan and one of my lingering ethical/artistic conundrums is that one of alltime my favorite bands - public enemy has long supported him. i've dumped woody allen, mel gibson, wagner - but Chuck D and maybe TS Eliot and a few others i haven't been able to part with
 

Flipx99

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DD are these your words or are you quoting?

either way, i'm not sure why this isn't your lede?
since it's not it sure seems like a 'gotcha' and more agenda driven than anything
you got good mileage out of the 'dumb anchor accuses black man of being white' thread (for good reason, that was incredibly dumb of her and/or her producer and deserves to be called out)

BUT your tut-tutting of the women's movement (and as soon as Flip got here) all the Left bc a supporter of an anti-semite is part of the leadership actually seems to be a meta trap you've set for yourself and others
the actual takeaway is that this group, like BLM and other groups on the left - and actually most of the Left itself do self-police
compare this to, say, Steve King - dude has said that same nonesense since he came into office but it's only now that the dems are back in control of the house that some idea of a rebuke comes up
there is no self-policing on the right - it continually allows itself to sink down to the lowest common denominator bc power in solidarity is the only value it seems to have
Linda Sarsour spoke today at the March. Not sure who that self policing is going.

Anyone who sings the praises of Shariah law is no friend of women, gays or really humanity generally. I have no idea why people want to ignore that wickedness.
 

N.O.Bronco

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DD are these your words or are you quoting?

either way, i'm not sure why this isn't your lede?
since it's not it sure seems like a 'gotcha' and more agenda driven than anything
you got good mileage out of the 'dumb anchor accuses black man of being white' thread (for good reason, that was incredibly dumb of her and/or her producer and deserves to be called out)

BUT your tut-tutting of the women's movement (and as soon as Flip got here) all the Left bc a supporter of an anti-semite is part of the leadership actually seems to be a meta trap you've set for yourself and others
the actual takeaway is that this group, like BLM and other groups on the left - and actually most of the Left itself do self-police
compare this to, say, Steve King - dude has said that same nonesense since he came into office but it's only now that the dems are back in control of the house that some idea of a rebuke comes up
there is no self-policing on the right - it continually allows itself to sink down to the lowest common denominator bc power in solidarity is the only value it seems to have
Very simple illustration to this point, how many of the people in this thread clutching over the controversy of the woman’s march, or the Gillette thread, or the anti white privilege thread have made a single post condemning the actions of Steve King or the students harassing and mocking native people at their march today? Made a single thread calling attention to or calling out any of the bigotry, sexism, or racism of the right since the Trump presidency started? Let alone showing anywhere close to the level of concern displayed here and elsewhere at their own caucus??

I’ll wait.
 
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DadsDream

DadsDream

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Very simple illustration to this point, how many of the people in this thread clutching over the controversy of the woman’s march, or the Gillette thread, or the anti white privilege thread have made a single post condemning the actions of Steve King or the students harassing and mocking native people at their march today? Made a single thread calling attention to or calling out any of the bigotry, sexism, or racism of the right since the Trump presidency started? Let alone showing anywhere close to the level of concern displayed here and elsewhere at their own caucus??

I’ll wait.
This thread was an illustration of examining a developing news item about the DNC and a Democratic congresswoman addressing bigotry.

It’s clear that the leadership of the march has yet to cut ties with those who promulgate hate and anti-Semitic rhetoric. Until it does, I cannot stand alongside it.

When I marched alongside hundreds of thousands of sisters in Washington in 2017, it was with a hope that we would never have to go down that road again. We marched to fight oppression wherever it exists. We marched to raise our voices against hate and discrimination. We did not march to help promote it.

- Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla)

Every thread can't be everything to everybody.

-dd
 
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DavidM

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why is a proponent of a legal system that treats women like subhumans speaking at a women's march of all places?
Who’s that?

I thought the controversy was one (or more) of the co-chairs has ties to Farrakhan, attended an NOI event where he gave the keynote, and praised him on the social media. WM should part ways with her (them).

If there’s more, I’m prepared to turn the dial up on my outrage as necessary.
 

Flipx99

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Who’s that?

I thought the controversy was one (or more) of the co-chairs has ties to Farrakhan, attended an NOI event where he gave the keynote, and praised him on the social media. WM should part ways with her (them).

If there’s more, I’m prepared to turn the dial up on my outrage as necessary.
Sarsour is one of the founders of the movement and is probably the biggest reason it does not have the "big tent" characteristics that you seem to think it has. She has said that women who are pro life are not welcome, she has said that women who support Israel are not welcome. She has said that Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who is an advocate for Islamic reform, should have her vagina removed (which is a really unfortunate comment given the fact that Ali was the victim of genital mutilation). She supports Sharia law, calling it "reasonable" and stating that it "makes a lot of sense." And yeah, she has spoken at an event organized by the Nation of Islam.
 
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DavidM

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Sarsour is one of the founders of the movement and is probably the biggest reason it does not have the "big tent" characteristics that you seem to think it has. She has said that women who are pro life are not welcome, she has said that women who support Israel are not welcome. She has said that Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who is an advocate for Islamic reform, should have her vagina removed (which is a really unfortunate comment given the fact that Ali was the victim of genital mutilation). She supports Sharia law, calling it "reasonable" and stating that it "makes a lot of sense." And yeah, she has spoken at an event organized by the Nation of Islam.
Linda Sarsour isn’t somebody who was on my radar until this discussion. I don’t know enough about her or what she believes. Skimming, though, she sure does sound controversial.

“Big Tent” was a reference to the political left - you know, blue collar, those educated elites, and various minority and rights groups all trying to find common ground while also advancing their specific interests. Can get a bit messy.

Outrage is ticking up - say a 2 or 3. Don’t like the idea of an anti-semitic feminist embracing Sharia law if that’s the case. That’s maybe too messy for the Big Tent.
 
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mt15

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Great, now we can get back to the point we were actually discussing - if the left is so great at self policing, why is a proponent of a legal system that treats women like subhumans speaking at a women's march of all places?
Hmmm....you want to restrict her ability to speak? You seem to have “flipped” a bit on the free speech issue then, oh defender of Milo and Gavin.

Just pointing out the irony here.
 
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mt15

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I think you may have misrepresented Sarsour a bit as well, flip. Please show some sources that she is anti-Semitic or supports Sharia law in the US. She supported Bernie Sanders for president. She supports the right of Israel to exist, but criticizes the Israeli State for its actions against Palestinians in occupied territories.

Here’s a sourced quote from her Wiki page:

“The commentator Melissa Harris-Perry writes that Sarsour was "the most reliable target of public vitriol" of the 2017 Women's March leaders over the following year.[23] Following her leadership role in the Women's March, Sarsour was subjected to violent threats on social media[24][6][25] and personal attacks by conservative media outlets, including false reports that she supported the militant Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant and advocated imposing sharia in the United States.[6][10][19] She stated that, while the march was a high point in her career, the media attacks that followed caused her to fear for her safety.[10] In response to the attacks, supporters used the Twitter hashtag #IMarchWithLinda,[10] including Sharon Brous of the National Council of Jewish Women, who worked with Sarsour in organizing the 2017 Women's March, and U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders.[19][26]Sarsour, along with her three co-chairs, was named as one of Time magazine's "100 Most Influential People" after the January march.[5][27]
 

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This thread was an illustration of examining a developing news item about the DNC and a Democratic congresswoman addressing bigotry.

It’s clear that the leadership of the march has yet to cut ties with those who promulgate hate and anti-Semitic rhetoric. Until it does, I cannot stand alongside it.

When I marched alongside hundreds of thousands of sisters in Washington in 2017, it was with a hope that we would never have to go down that road again. We marched to fight oppression wherever it exists. We marched to raise our voices against hate and discrimination. We did not march to help promote it.

- Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla)

Every thread can't be everything to everybody.

-dd
It doesn’t need to be everything to everybody.

That’s not my contention.

My contention is those people that have only demonstrated these sorts of concerns when it is occurring about or from within members of a group they already have made clear they do not like and oppose.

There are a number of posters here that not once have I ever seen demonstrate a shred of concern for misogyny, racism, fundamentalism, or extremism from their side of the aisle only to ask the rest of the board to suddenly believe they have a deep concern about possible anti-Semitic sentiments for a march about a cause they have never once shown support for. Including suddenly finding the words of people like Wasserman Shultz the final say on matters they would of never done so in any other context.

Their radio silence on those matters are deafening and the echo says quite a lot about the feigned pearl clutching that then occurs selectively in threads like this that suddenly pretend to share concern but conveniently serve as a conduit to advance partisan cleavages and mirror right wing attacks of the day.

So I’ll bow out still wondering where your answers are to my questions from the other day about white privilege lol?.

Making my statement that I think the organizers of the march have some decisions to make about how their leadership should reflect their cause, that in matters like this signaling does matter, and that it does give an opportunity for disengenuous partisans to come in and try and sow division like we see mirrored in here which reflects the larger right-wing tactic from yesterday of dividing and conquering. But Sarsour herself does not seem to be a problem. Unless we are going to conflate criticism for the state of Israel and it’s policies as criticism of Judaism.
 
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Goatman Saint

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This is why I find myself sitting at home with my cat so much better for my sanity. If you simply look at the idea behind the women’s march and protests there isn’t anything wrong with it. Empowering women, striving for equality in all areas, on and on. There are of course people who will not fit perfectly into what the leadership or news media finds perfect, so they, in the end become the story and undercut things. Instead of ignoring the rabble and the hangers on which are everywhere in any organization and movement (Farrakhan has been in every shirt storm for years spreading his filth) the news media sniffs it out and blows it up. Out of the millions who marched or demonstrated around the US yesterday (I admit it I did too for
A short amount of time) how many really are tied to the antisemites and such? The one here was about fair treatment, encouraging voting by having places to register, women’s crisis networks, racism, that sort of thing.
 

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