Explained Spotrac and the Saints salary cap: Check before proposing to trade/cut players (1 Viewer)

[B4YOU]

The cap situation is why I suggested signing Andy Dalton instead of Winston in ‘22 and pushing forward future bonus money to ‘22. We shouldn’t have signed HB either. That’s like 24M on two players for ‘23.

The ‘23 season is the kicked can hitting the wall. The only solution though is to keep kicking. We have too many players on too much bonus money to trade anyone. Instead, we will destroy depth in ‘23.

Every player will be cut if they cost 1.5M or more and can be cut at a savings and replace with a base salary FA. Baun, Granderson, Smith, Harty, Roby, etc.

Davenport and Oyemata’s backend bonuses will almost force you to resign them just like Peat’s contract has kept him around. Their agents will gouge Loomis because he’s cap broke and bonus indebted. Bad contracts are how you end up paying Peat 18M and Hill 14M. No one else in the league would pay them that.

 

[Doug B]

I'd bring Davenport back. His sack #'s aren't up but his pressure rate among things is equal to a year ago.

What's not equal to a year ago was the coverage and safety play. The former has improved in recent weeks but missing Lattimore has hurt a lot and I think dline sack #'s have taken a hit because of it.

He'll be cheaper to bring back for a year anyhow.

Davenport was just a handy example of how void years work because of how his contract is structured. As you can see, we're still trying to figure out exactly what happens with those all the future void years if he's cut before the 2023 season ... but it's strictly an academic exercise.

Apparently, cutting him before the 2023 season accomplishes nothing cap-wise. The net cap effect is $0, and you still need to fill his roster spot. So I agree with you that in real football, it makes all kinds of sense to bring Davenport back next season.

 

[Doug B]

I like Over the Cap simply for the Post June 1st cut option to push the cap hit until the following year (2024) which is what we always do anticipating the salary cap raising.

Yeah, Spotrac's Manage Roster thing is fun to play around with and is a decent blunt analysis tool. But that post June 1st cut feature on Over The Cap is pretty stout.

 

[B4YOU]

I'd bring Davenport back. His sack #'s aren't up but his pressure rate among things is equal to a year ago.

What's not equal to a year ago was the coverage and safety play. The former has improved in recent weeks but missing Lattimore has hurt a lot and I think dline sack #'s have taken a hit because of it.

He'll be cheaper to bring back for a year anyhow.

Here’s the problem with Davenport. He costs you 7.2M next year in dead cap as a FA. So if you sign him, you want multiple years to spread that hit out.

I did a early season breakdown with player comps of his cost to resign and put it at 8-10M. His 0.5 sacks and being 13th on the team in sacks as the starting DE suggests a much lower number. So you offer him a 1 yr deal at 4-5M, he costs you 11.2M, and you are no better off.

I think we offer him a 3yr deal and over pay for cap savings in ‘23 with hits of 4, 8, 12M.

 

[Doug B]

The way void year restructures work is that it accelerates that cap hit to 2023 when the void cut happens.

... so the future void year amounts (2024-26) just disappear? Or do the future void year amounts also get counted against the 2023 cap (if the void cut is before the 2023 season)?

 

[St4ever]

Sorry I’m not going to read into all of those numbers but rather cut through the fat and only ask or say.

so what if we have to field a one year team with almost all UFA or UDA to clear out all the bad money in 2023 and not leave any for 2024!
what would be the issue with only keeping your best prospects and moving on with a bad year. Think of a Carolina year! Get the #1 overall for 2024 nd clear out the cap!

I would be willing to do that. So what if we only win 1-2 games t the most. We only got three and everyone wants to complain about how much were paying players who only are hurt or don’t produce for their dollars.

 

[B4YOU]

... so the future void year amounts (2024-26) just disappear? Or do the future void year amounts also get counted against the 2023 cap (if the void cut is before the 2023 season)?

They count against ‘23.

 

[Taker597]

... so the future void year amounts (2024-26) just disappear? Or do the future void year amounts also get counted against the 2023 cap (if the void cut is before the 2023 season)?

Accelerate the cap hit as in all the Void Years get compounded into one year. They don't disappear.. they all just get moved to the current league.

 

[Doug B]

Accelerate the cap hit as in all the Void Years get compounded into one year. They don't disappear.. they all just get moved to the current league.

... then the way Spotrac displays Davenport's void year money is a bit screwy. Or I guess non-intuitive.

 

[Saintcd]

Sorry I’m not going to read into all of those numbers but rather cut through the fat and only ask or say.

so what if we have to field a one year team with almost all UFA or UDA to clear out all the bad money in 2023 and not leave any for 2024!
what would be the issue with only keeping your best prospects and moving on with a bad year. Think of a Carolina year! Get the #1 overall for 2024 nd clear out the cap!

I would be willing to do that. So what if we only win 1-2 games t the most. We only got three and everyone wants to complain about how much were paying players who only are hurt or don’t produce for their dollars.

This. Rip that bandaid off, basically claim bankruptcy and rebuild the next season. This is really the only way to get out from under the cap hell other than to keep kicking the can and we suck the next decade. Fans would understand if the saints are honest about it.

 

[Taker597]

... then the way Spotrac displays Davenport's void year money is a bit screwy. Or I guess non-intuitive.

It's display in the way that Loomis legally manipulates the cap.

So, when Loomis does these void year contract... It works the same way as signing bonus where it gets spread across the life of the contract, but if you cut a player before their contract ends... The signing bonus becomes a lump sum cap hit.

He add fake years to him usually 3 or 4 years and money gets spread across it. The language on the on contract is that Marcus has to be on the roster for these cap hits to apply for those 4 years. The void triggers and the restructure gets treated like a signing bonus. It all becomes a 2023 cap hit.

But you can avoid this if you extend Davenport and amend the void out of his contract. Which is a possiblity... If we can resign him for 4 millions. It's better than eating $7 million and having no player for it.

 

[St4ever]

This. Rip that bandaid off, basically claim bankruptcy and rebuild the next season. This is really the only way to get out from under the cap hell other than to keep kicking the can and we suck the next decade. Fans would understand if the saints are honest about it.

i agree, so what!
the point their pushing is we cannot afford to take the losses. That’s horse doody! Their way will only drag it out over more years and we will suck even longer! So we end up with only $25mil left to fill those position put a team on the field. So what! Just do it. I would even be ok with keeping DA during the process, lol, he’s kinda earned it after botching this year’s team!

 

[St4ever]

It's display in the way that Loomis legally manipulates the cap.

So, when Loomis does these void year contract... It works the same way as signing bonus where it gets spread across the life of the contract, but if you cut a player before their contract ends... The signing bonus becomes a lump sum cap hit.

He add fake years to him usually 3 or 4 years and money gets spread across it. The language on the on contract is that Marcus has to be on the roster for these cap hits to apply for those 4 years. The void triggers and the restructure gets treated like a signing bonus. It all becomes a 2023 cap hit.

But you can avoid this if you extend Davenport and amend the void out of his contract. Which is a possiblity... If we can resign him for 4 millions. It's better than eating $7 million and having no player for it.

Not if he demands a new higher paying contract!

 

[Taker597]

Not if he demands a new higher paying contract!

I could demand getting paid to post, but that's not going to happen. Davenport is probably realistic on his value. It's not high. a 4 year $16 million deal is about good as he should expect.

 

[B4YOU]

I could demand getting paid to post, but that's not going to happen. Davenport is probably realistic on his value. It's not high. a 4 year $16 million deal is about good as he should expect.

Agree, 4-5M is his value. We’ll over pay to keep him. We will pay 5.5-7M to spread out his 7.2M cap hit. This is how you tie yourself to bad contracts.