Star Wars 9 rise of sky walker [Spoilers] (2 Viewers)

Torgo

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I completely disagree on 7-9. The issues with those 3 is much deeper than flawed stories. Everything else was not topnotch. TLJ was fraught with poorly timed punch lines and attempts at humor that were try hard cheesy moments. It made me cringe more than laugh. Star Wars isn't a comedy, although a lot of episodes have some sprinkled throughout. It rarely overshadowed the story. The ones that did, to me got the worst reviews. Phantom Menance, AOC to some degree and TLJ were the worst. The most memorable films and moments were those serious, intense moments when the forces are at battle with one another.

I guess those are storytelling issues, but the directors and writers are the ones who create the overall vision for each of the trilogies, and TLJ was a jarring, almost nonsensical telling of the middle episode of what's supposed to be the bridge between 7 and 9. It felt more like a filler episode than a continuation of an epic saga.
This last point sums up my feelings quite well. I've made my thoughts about TLJ quite clear in that thread, so I won't re-hash those here, but the fact that it failed to bridge episodes 7 and 9 is its biggest sin.

And, that's why I grade RoS on a major curve. Johnson left the trilogy nowhere to go in its final installment, so most of the movie is spent trying to correct that. I walked into 9 with very low expectations, and came out thoroughly entertained. It's not a movie I'd care to own, but I am looking forward to a second viewing when it lands on Disney+.
 

DaveXA

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This last point sums up my feelings quite well. I've made my thoughts about TLJ quite clear in that thread, so I won't re-hash those here, but the fact that it failed to bridge episodes 7 and 9 is its biggest sin.

And, that's why I grade RoS on a major curve. Johnson left the trilogy nowhere to go in its final installment, so most of the movie is spent trying to correct that. I walked into 9 with very low expectations, and came out thoroughly entertained. It's not a movie I'd care to own, but I am looking forward to a second viewing when it lands on Disney+.
Yeah, I don't know why it evolved the way it did, but the trilogy and story telling should have been completed before the first movie started shooting. I just hope Disney and Star Wars recognizes the flaws for what they are and changes their approach in future trilogies or sagas.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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The sequel trilogy's biggest problem is they never established a road map. It was literally "Ok, J.J., you make a movie, Rian you make a movie, and Colin you make a movie. Oh no, Carrie Fisher died and this is taking too long, Colin you're fired. J.J. come make another movie." Nobody sat down the talent and worked out a three act story for everyone to work on. That much is obvious by how radically different the leaked Colin Trevorrow script is from what Rise of Skywalker ended up being. They're not even kind of similar. J.J insists the plan all along was for Palpatine to be the big bad behind everything. Well he's not even IN the Trevorrow script except for a random mention. So since the guy that was originally writing and directing the third movie didn't even have Palpatine in the film, I think we can dismiss all claims of that being the plan from the word go. Or that there even was a plan. There was no plan. And it shows.
And maybe Dave Filoni can fix this too
 

Sun Wukong

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There's something in The Last Jedi I feel doesn't get enough hate: on Canto Bight when they're looking for the code breaker, and we briefly see him while gambling, he looks like a movie star from the 1930's and John Williams' score briefly goes into this pastiche of Golden Era Hollywood musical scores that crosses the line into straight parody. It is literally the least Star Warsy thing to ever happen in any Star Wars movie ever.


And, that's why I grade RoS on a major curve. Johnson left the trilogy nowhere to go in its final installment, so most of the movie is spent trying to correct that. I walked into 9 with very low expectations, and came out thoroughly entertained. It's not a movie I'd care to own, but I am looking forward to a second viewing when it lands on Disney+.
I'm in the same boat. I feel like TLJ so hamstrung the story that any third film was crippled from the get go. The leaked Trevorrow script isn't particularly great either, despite it getting a lot of "backup quarterback" style praise. TLJ is just a poor attempt at a second act of a three act story. And I love Rian Johnson as a filmmaker, but that movie just dropped the ball. It dismissed too much of what came before it and didn't care one iota about what was coming after it.
 

Torgo

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The sequel trilogy's biggest problem is they never established a road map. It was literally "Ok, J.J., you make a movie, Rian you make a movie, and Colin you make a movie. Oh no, Carrie Fisher died and this is taking too long, Colin you're fired. J.J. come make another movie." Nobody sat down the talent and worked out a three act story for everyone to work on. That much is obvious by how radically different the leaked Colin Trevorrow script is from what Rise of Skywalker ended up being. They're not even kind of similar. J.J insists the plan all along was for Palpatine to be the big bad behind everything. Well he's not even IN the Trevorrow script except for a random mention. So since the guy that was originally writing and directing the third movie didn't even have Palpatine in the film, I think we can dismiss all claims of that being the plan from the word go. Or that there even was a plan. There was no plan. And it shows.
Well, I would assume JJ means it was his plan all along. Maybe, he's full of it. Maybe not. The people(or, ahem, person) in charge of overseeing the movies for Disney obviously had no plan.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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There's something in The Last Jedi I feel doesn't get enough hate: on Canto Bight when they're looking for the code breaker, and we briefly see him while gambling, he looks like a movie star from the 1930's and John Williams' score briefly goes into this pastiche of Golden Era Hollywood musical scores that crosses the line into straight parody. It is literally the least Star Warsy thing to ever happen in any Star Wars movie ever.




I'm in the same boat. I feel like TLJ so hamstrung the story that any third film was crippled from the get go. The leaked Trevorrow script isn't particularly great either, despite it getting a lot of "backup quarterback" style praise. TLJ is just a poor attempt at a second act of a three act story. And I love Rian Johnson as a filmmaker, but that movie just dropped the ball. It dismissed too much of what came before it and didn't care one iota about what was coming after it.
Except that I think the meta of anyone could be Jedi was the way to go and JJ’s insistence on making it come sort of dynastic battle (except that it’s not) made 9 an entire movie built on sand
 

Sun Wukong

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Well, I would assume JJ means it was his plan all along. Maybe, he's full of it. Maybe not. The people(or, ahem, person) in charge of overseeing the movies for Disney obviously had no plan.
J.J. lies a lot. Like, a LOT. And blatantly. I don't even dislike him, but he has a complicated relationship with honesty.
 

Sun Wukong

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I will add this, though: despite everyone being down on the sequel trilogy, most everything else Star Wars related this past year has been good to great. The Mandalorian, Clone Wars season 7, and Jedi: Fallen Order are all somewhere on a spectrum of good to great. So there's that.
 

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Yep, it felt like a serial-cartoon. It was set in a universe we were familiar with, with characters we were familiar with, but the story never flowed nor did the previous entries and story-beats seem to make an impact.

The sequel trilogy should have been made with these goals -

1.) Create a succinct story that someone new to the films could enjoy and understand if they only watched the 3 films.
2.) At the same time, reward viewers that have watched all the films (most people) and connect dots, blend worlds, blend trilogies.
3.) Raise the stakes - advance to the next boss who is bigger and more powerful than the last, the ultimate bad guy
4.) Make decisions and actions of characters from the past trilogies come back to haunt people in the new story as well as play a role in closing story arcs by killing off characters in meaningful ways
5.) Make the films feel as though they were planned from the beginning and that this was the direction the story was always meant to lead to from the day the saga started. A concept I have come up with here for this is the term "post-shadow," where you take elements from the previous stories that weren't meant to mean much of anything, but you now retroactively turn them into big deals that make it look like genius in hindsight.

They accomplished none of these five things. TFA was headed down the right path. With it being 30 years later, like previous installments, it dropped us into a story where we had no idea what was going on and we had to figure it out and pick up clues along the way. However, with the next film, none of those clues paid off. For instance - why in the world did the Skywalker saber call out to Rey?
 

tenordas

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FLASHBACK:

Anyone remember how excited we all were when Disney announced that this was coming and that George Lucas wouldn't be involved in writing or directing the new trilogy? Yes, we were all ecstatic. No more terrible dialog, no worrying if there would be another JarJar Binks level of heinous character.

And yet, somehow, we got a total train wreck. For all his faults, at least George Lucas knew where he was going with the story. Yes, he screwed up ROTJ by listening to marketers and giving us singing teddy bears instead of the Wookie home world, and the Emperor was a major let down (a full on idiot who didn't know when to shut up), but at least there was coherency to the overall plot.

TFA was simply a veiled rip-off of the original film in every aspect:
Same starting planet
Rey = Luke
Finn = C3PO
BB8 = R2D2
Han Solo = Obi Wan (from finding Rey/Luke; to mentoring them; to dying at the hand of Kylo/Vader in sight of his protege)
Kylo = Darth Vader
Po = Han Solo
Gen Hux = Grand Mof Tarkin
First Order = Empire
Death Planet (did it even have a name?) = Death Star

And that was the best of these films. Star Wars: Episode 8 The Last Insult was simply an unwatchable disaster. Unforgivably badly written, badly directed, and badly acted. I still haven't bothered to watch episode 9. When it comes out on Disney + and I have NOTHING else to do, I may watch it in small bits so I don't throw up trying to stomach the whole thing at once. Yes, I know several of the plot "twists" by now before seeing it, but they are stupid anyway, so it really isn't spoiled for me. Actually, it is spoiled for me, but not because of what I know about it, but because Disney had no overall plan in mind when they started the trilogy. The entire venture was spoiled for all of us because of that.

I think I'm better off treating them as if they don't exist, Meanwhile, I await someone somewhere to have the money to put the Thrawn trilogy to film with a really good cast. Then I will call those movies Episodes 7-9, no matter what names they are given.
 

Sun Wukong

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Another thing about the sequel trilogy I've ruminated on is it's actually really lacking in scope. Episodes 1-6 tell a long form, multi-generational story of a central villain's rise to power, his corruption of others and fundamental altering of the galaxy, eradication of the Jedi, the start of a rebellion against him, etc.. And we get to see the scope of that through time jumps. The prequels span a period of 13 or 14 years. There is 19 years of story time between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope. Three years between ANH and ESB, then a year between ESN and RotJ.

The entire sequel trilogy takes place in a little over a year. The first two movies only cover a handful of days. In short, the First Order performs a smash and grab on the New Republic government, occupies planets and causes trouble for about a year, then is destroyed. It's just completely lacking in scope and scale. Its the War of 1812 to the original saga's Revolutionary War: a minor sequel featuring the same players that ends unceremoniously and in which nothing of substance actually occurs and very little change is affected.
 
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guidomerkinsrules

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Another thing about the sequel trilogy I've ruminated on is it's actually really lacking in scope. Episodes 1-6 tell a long form, multi-generational story of a central villain's rise to power, his corruption of others and fundamental altering of the galaxy, eradication of the Jedi, the start of a rebellion against him, etc.. And we get to see the scope of that through time jumps. The prequels span a period of 13 or 14 years. There is 19 years of story time between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope. Three years between ANH and ESB, then a year between ESN and RotJ.

The entire sequel trilogy takes place in a little over a year. The first two movies only cover a handful of days. In short, the First Order performs a smash and grab on the New Republic government, occupies planets and causes trouble for about a year, then is destroyed. It's just completely lacking in scope and scale. Its the War of 1812 to the original saga's Revolutionary War: a minor sequel featuring the same players that ends unceremoniously and in which nothing of substance actually occurs and very little change is affected.
So I imagine they had long conversations about ‘is the Skywalker saga going to be the backbone going forward or will we end it and start moving away from the Skywalkers'
once they make the latter decision the story almost has to ned with luke/leia so there can't be the scope of the others - they are then also limited into what kind of big bad they use -- does not make much sense to have something other than DARK SIDE. so you either have Snoke who is an Emperor substitute or just use the emperor

but again if they're trying to put a button on Skywalker, then finishing it within Luke/Leia's timelines makes the most sense
 
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