Support for alternative onside kick option gaining steam (picking up a 4th & 15 from the 25 yd line) (5/28 Update: DENIED) (1 Viewer)

[VPCajun]

So, simple question: Was anyone complaining about onside kicks?
...

Yes, the Saints complained to Roger that they just could not recover onsides kicks and they wanted him to step in and STOP it!

So, him being such a swell guy, he did.


NOT!

 

[St. Geezy]

Think it should be 4th and 20 instead of 15.

 

[SaintsAreWinners]

Every year the NFL has to screw around with the game.

They can’t go one year without changing a rule.

 

[saintlad]

I am not understanding this.

Assuming a team is 17 points down.

The losing team scores a td.

The losing team gets ball again for 4 & 15? The other team doesn't get possession?

So losing team miraculously scores yet another td.

The losing team gets another possession of 4th & 15 on an already super tired defense???

How exactly is that safer for the players?

And fair for a team that dominated about 90% of the game???

 

[St. Geezy]

Not going to lie, this thing has kind of grown on me a bit in recent days.

I'm a football purest, but I think this could be something that improves the game. It puts getting back into the game into your own hands rather than extreme luck. I think it also brings more excitement, where you will feel like your team has a good chance at a last minute comeback.

Now granted, I get that it works both ways, but I am coming around to the idea that this could be good for the sport overall. The only part I am shaky about is penalty enforcement on these plays; I'd hate to see a team get rewarded with a new possession due to a ticky-tack hands to the face call or something like that.

 

[Pocket Hercules]

Not going to lie, this thing has kind of grown on me a bit in recent days.

I'm a football purest, but I think this could be something that improves the game. It puts getting back into the game into your own hands rather than extreme luck. I think it also brings more excitement, where you will feel like your team has a good chance at a last minute comeback.

Now granted, I get that it works both ways, but I am coming around to the idea that this could be good for the sport overall. The only part I am shaky about is penalty enforcement on these plays; I'd hate to see a team get rewarded with a new possession due to a ticky-tack hands to the face call or something like that.

But it SHOULD require luck to get back into the game if you've been getting your arse handed to you for 58+ minutes. Not to mention it helps/hurts teams unevenly. Baltimore is one of the best teams in the league, but they're going to have a lot harder time capitalizing on this opportunity than the Saints or Chiefs. On the other side of the ball, a team like the Raiders is at a disadvantage with a terrible passer rating against defense while they're one of the best yards per attempt rushing defenses in the league. It's pretty rare that teams don't have some kind of statistical weakness, and when that statistical weakness has the possibility of deciding an entire possession - on one play - when the game is on the line seems unfair to me. Then you throw in the automatic 1st down calls that could realistically be made anytime an official wants to influence the outcome of a game...it seems like a point of vulnerability for the gambling underworld to target and take advantage of if you ask me.

I wish that the onside kick rules/formation had not been changed, but I just don't think this is the right move to bring excitement back to the end of multi-score games.

 

[Quiet Storm]

I don't know. Wouldn't this help us? We couldn't recover an onside kick if our lives depended on it. I'll take my chances on 4th and 15.

 

[Pocket Hercules]

I don't know. Wouldn't this help us? We couldn't recover an onside kick if our lives depended on it. I'll take my chances on 4th and 15.

Maybe...

With our roster and coaching staff, we're much more likely to be ahead by multiple scores at the end of games than behind.

The real questions are: How much do you trust our pass defense in crunch time? How much do you trust officials to keep the forking flags in their pockets when we're defending 4th and 15?

Beyond that: Do you like this rule next year when our offense resembles Baltimore's with Taysom behind center? I don't.

 

[SaintJ]

Remember, this is allegedly for "player safety."

What's next, the team that's down by nine or more can make the other team kick off?

Just allow teams to put as many guys as they want on that side of the kicker and make it fun again. I would find it very hard to believe that there was a meaningful amount of excess injury on the 50-60 onside kicks per year, when guys have maybe 10 yards to get a running start.

 

[meily]

I don't think getting a free play to try and continue a drive is fair to the opposing team. The inside kick is a special teams unit play and should stay as such because there are 3 phases of the game (offense, defense and special teams).

 

[Quiet Storm]

Maybe...

With our roster and coaching staff, we're much more likely to be ahead by multiple scores at the end of games than behind.

The real questions are: How much do you trust our pass defense in crunch time? How much do you trust officials to keep the forking flags in their pockets when we're defending 4th and 15?

Beyond that: Do you like this rule next year when our offense resembles Baltimore's with Taysom behind center? I don't.

I was kinda poking fun at our struggles with the recovering the onside kick but I definitely wouldn't trust a 4th and 15, not that I don't think our D can stop a team but flags flying for a BS hold.

 

[Saintsphere]

 

[SaintsBrazil]

Just the idea of pass interference and this idea together ... Nope don't want to see that.

 

[St. Geezy]

But it SHOULD require luck to get back into the game if you've been getting your arse handed to you for 58+ minutes. Not to mention it helps/hurts teams unevenly. Baltimore is one of the best teams in the league, but they're going to have a lot harder time capitalizing on this opportunity than the Saints or Chiefs. On the other side of the ball, a team like the Raiders is at a disadvantage with a terrible passer rating against defense while they're one of the best yards per attempt rushing defenses in the league. It's pretty rare that teams don't have some kind of statistical weakness, and when that statistical weakness has the possibility of deciding an entire possession - on one play - when the game is on the line seems unfair to me. Then you throw in the automatic 1st down calls that could realistically be made anytime an official wants to influence the outcome of a game...it seems like a point of vulnerability for the gambling underworld to target and take advantage of if you ask me.

I wish that the onside kick rules/formation had not been changed, but I just don't think this is the right move to bring excitement back to the end of multi-score games.

I think that if they can come up with an equitable way of providing the same percentage chance of an onside kick recovery into this "4th down conversion" scenario, I don't have a problem with the change.

Like I said though, the part I am having trouble coming to terms with is penalty enforcement in these situations. I don't like the idea of a cheap 5-yard holding, hands to the face, or illegal contact call resulting in an automatic first down in this situation, and actually, I hate the rule in the regulation sense as well. Hopefully they can come up with a solution for that. Maybe at a minimal, they can remove the automatic first down aspect from this specific scenario and only enforce the yardage and replay the down.

I am thinking also that maybe it should not be a true "regulation" play. It may sound convoluted, but I think if you achieve the line to gain, the play should stop there and you get the ball at the first down marker, even if it is a pass completed beyond that yard line. No scoring allowed on these plays either. This should be strictly about creating a new possession opportunity.

Maybe 4th and 15 isn't the answer. Perhaps 4th and 20 from the 25. This way, it is a.) a true challenge that no teams have plays in the playbook for so it requires luck, and b.) if you use my idea about stopping the play at the line to gain, if you get the first down, you're getting it at a spot that most onside kick recoveries typically occur.

 

[St. Geezy]

//endthread