Surprise Winston start next week? (1 Viewer)

[BelowZero]

Why would he do that? Hill is 2-0 and Winston is a loss waiting to happen.

How can you know that Winston is a loss waiting to happen in a system you haven't seen him play in? Hill is 2-0 because he's been safe with the ball and reverting to what he does best with his feet to score, while the defense turns in two dominant performances in a row. If you're looking at things objectively, the only reason Taysom got the start is because of Payton's ego.

 

[Walter White]

How can you know that Winston is a loss waiting to happen in a system you haven't seen him play in? Hill is 2-0 because he's been safe with the ball and reverting to what he does best with his feet to score, while the defense turns in two dominant performances in a row. If you're looking at things objectively, the only reason Taysom got the start is because of Payton's ego.

That's the thing with some folks when it comes to this topic. Many won't look at things objectively. It's either one or none. I wouldn't say Hill started because of Payton's ego. I think that Hill has been in the system for 3 years, he's getting paid like a starter, so now it's time to see if the investment is worth it or not. It's the perfect audition. It will give CSP an idea on what moves to make going forward.

 

[Ihartsaints]

I really wanted to see what Jameis could do. I hope he plays at least half.

Me too but satisfying our curiosity takes a back seat to fielding the roster that the coach decides is right for the game. Not much different than those who were clamoring to see Haysom replace Teddy when Teddy was putting up only 12 and 13 points in games. We stuck with teddy because playing musical chairs with the QBs is not a great call.

 

[Madhattr]

I'm not saying it will happen, but it would be a very "Payton" move to surprise Atlanta by starting Jameis Winston next week after Atlanta has gone through a week of preparation for Hill.

Wake up. Not happening.

 

[St. Aaron]

It's not going to happen, but I'm very curious to see what Jameis would look like in Payton's offense with a full week of planning. Jameis is the better QB at this point in their careers. Taysom could turn out to be better when all is said and done, but he isn't now.

 

[Ihartsaints]

I won't speak for Payton but Jameis would need to be darn near perfect in practice to address the concerns I would have playing him in a start. It was posted that Taysom sucked in Denver. But did he? What is the measure that warranted that impression?

The team ran for 229 yards, 307 total yard, Tyasom completed 56.25% of his passes with 1 Int. and ran for 41 yards and 2 TDs.

Only the completion rate and interception stand out to me. There is a fair amount of cross over between those saying Taysom had a bad game and those asking to see Winston get a chance next week.

So I decided to look deeper into the Taysom had a bad game argument and see how his bad compares to Jameis Winston's 7 worst games last year.

These are seven of his eight losses last year they are sorted by completion percentage.

The first thing that jumps out at me is that Winston played six games where he has a lower completion percentage than Taysom in Denver.

Much has been made of Taysom throwing a single interception this week and a fumble last week. In contrast, in the 7 games, Jameis has 2 games with 2 interceptions, 1 with 3, 2 with 4, and one with a whopping 5 interceptions.

On top of the crazy interception count, he had 9 fumbles in 7 games..

Over this 7 game slate, he scored an average of 1.6 TDs per game.

Over his two starts, Taysim's average is 2 TDs.

If Taysom sucked in Denver it is very hard not to say that Jameis sucked in these 7 games.

The last stat is maybe the most important. Taysom 2-0 Jameis 0-7

 

[St. Aaron]

I won't speak for Payton but Jameis would need to be darn near perfect in practice to address the concerns I would have playing him in a start. It was posted that Taysom sucked in Denver. But did he? What is the measure that warranted that impression?

The team ran for 229 yards, 307 total yard, Tyasom completed 56.25% of his passes with 1 Int. and ran for 41 yards and 2 TDs.

Only the completion rate and interception stand out to me. There is a fair amount of cross over between those saying Taysom had a bad game and those asking to see Winston get a chance next week.

So I decided to look deeper into the Taysom had a bad game argument and see how his bad compares to Jameis Winston's 7 worst games last year.

These are seven of his eight losses last year they are sorted by completion percentage.

The first thing that jumps out at me is that Winston played six games where he has a lower completion percentage than Taysom in Denver.

Much has been made of Taysom throwing a single interception this week and a fumble last week. In contrast, in the 7 games, Jameis has 2 games with 2 interceptions, 1 with 3, 2 with 4, and one with a whopping 5 interceptions.

On top of the crazy interception count, he had 9 fumbles in 7 games..

Over this 7 game slate, he scored an average of 1.6 TDs per game.

Over his two starts, Taysim's average is 2 TDs.

If Taysom sucked in Denver it is very hard not to say that Jameis sucked in these 7 games.

The last stat is maybe the most important. Taysom 2-0 Jameis 0-7

Even Brady hasn't looked great under Arians, with even more weapons than Jameis had. I think it's blindingly obvious that Payton is a much better play caller than Arians. Maybe Jameis is who he is and wouldn't fair any better under Payton, but I kind of doubt that. I don't think he would be Brees by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think he would be the same Jameis we saw in Tampa either. And I say all this as someone who likes Taysom and wants him to succeed. But if I had to choose which QB gives us the best chance to go deep into the playoffs if Drew can't play (hopefully, he can) it's Jameis. I'll pull like crazy for whoever is under center, but I can't pretend that Taysom looked anything but lost for most of Sunday's game. If he can't read zone, like Rev Deuce pointed out in one of his tweets, then he's more of a liability than Jameis.

 

[Ihartsaints]

Even Brady hasn't looked great under Arians, with even more weapons than Jameis had. I think it's blindingly obvious that Payton is a much better play caller than Arians. Maybe Jameis is who he is and wouldn't fair any better under Payton, but I kind of doubt that. I don't think he would be Brees by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think he would be the same Jameis we saw in Tampa either. And I say all this as someone who likes Taysom and wants him to succeed. But if I had to choose which QB gives us the best chance to go deep into the playoffs if Drew can't play (hopefully, he can) it's Jameis. I'll pull like crazy for whoever is under center, but I can't pretend that Taysom looked anything but lost for most of Sunday's game. If he can't read zone, like Rev Deuce pointed out in one of his tweets, then he's more of a liability than Jameis.

Fair enough but to be honest, Tom was not stellar last year under maybe the best coaching staff in the game.

Payton may change direction if Taysom does not pan out but as of today Payton and I disagree with you.

Maybe you can understand my argument. After the game, a thread was created saying that Payton blamed his play calling for the poor stat line. Immediately this forum erupted with comments along the line of "OK maybe the play calling was not idea BUT Taysom is still responsible for his execution".

Now you seem to be saying that Jameis is not responsible for his execution and that Arians is largely to blame, pointing to Brady to bolster your claim.

It is the double standard on the Winston front that I have been trying to point out.

I believe this chart explains my reservations. It isn't hate for Jameis just a clear statistical map of the obstacles he has to overcome to be trusted with starting.

 

[St. Aaron]

Fair enough but to be honest, Tom was not stellar last year under maybe the best coaching staff in the game.

Payton may change direction if Taysom does not pan out but as of today Payton and I disagree with you.

Maybe you can understand my argument. After the game, a thread was created saying that Payton blamed his play calling for the poor stat line. Immediately this forum erupted with comments along the line of "OK maybe the play calling was not idea BUT Taysom is still responsible for his execution".

Now you seem to be saying that Jameis is not responsible for his execution and that Arians is largely to blame, pointing to Brady to bolster your claim.

It is the double standard on the Winston front that I have been trying to point out.

I believe this chart explains my reservations. It isn't hate for Jameis just a clear statistical map of the obstacles he has to overcome to be trusted with starting.

I don't think it's either/or. Coaches are responsible for putting their players in a position to succeed and players are responsible for their execution. Both play a role. I don't doubt that Payton changed the game plan and called a much more conservative game; Taysom still made bad reads and missed wide open guys.

I've seen it commented multiple times that Arians has Brady trying to air it out deep instead of playing to his strengths (which I'm thankful for; I don't want them to succeed). And I'm not denying that Jameis made some bad mistakes in Tampa, but it seems that Arians is more about forcing QBs into his system than tailoring game plans to his QBs like Payton. I just think we see a better version of Jameis under Payton and, if I were a betting man, I would bet that that version of Jameis is better than Taysom at this point. I know Taysom is Payton's project and he's talked him up as the next Steve Young, but it's really hard to believe that at the moment or that Taysom gives us a better shot in the playoffs than Jameis.

Sure, I could be wrong, and I'd be happy to be wrong, but that's how it looks to me at the moment.

 

[Ihartsaints]

I don't think it's either/or. Coaches are responsible for putting their players in a position to succeed and players are responsible for their execution. Both play a role. I don't doubt that Payton changed the game plan and called a much more conservative game; Taysom still made bad reads and missed wide open guys. I've seen it commented multiple times that Arians has Brady trying to air it out deep instead of playing to his strengths (which I'm thankful for; I don't want them to succeed). I'm not denying that Jameis made some bad mistakes in Tampa, but it seems that Arians is more about forcing QBs into his system than tailoring game plans to his QBs like Payton. I just think we see a better version of Jameis under Payton and, if I were a betting man, I would bet that that version of Jameis is better than Taysom at this point. I know Taysom is Payton's project and he's talked him up as the next Steve Young, but it's really hard to believe that at the moment or that Taysom gives us a better shot in the playoffs than Jameis. Sure, I could be wrong, and I'd be happy to be wrong, but that's how it looks to me at the moment.

Taysom probably does give ground to other QB's (Although He is far from the worst passer in the NFL) but you can not disregard his ability to see and seize opportunities to rip off running gains. If Taysom was not a legitimate dual-threat then I would agree with you as simply a pure pocket passer, there are probably better options in the marketplace or draft than either him or Winston.

When Brady Poppinga said Lamar was a poor man's Taysom Hill and Coach Westhoff said "Taysom Hill does those same kinds of things. I think he throws better.” People laughed. Given Taysom's two starts and Lamar's passing problems, not so many are laughing now.

 

[David Robbins]

By the way, has anyone been watching Tom Brady play lately. Give Hill a break. At least he's winning

 

[No2DC]

I won't speak for Payton but Jameis would need to be darn near perfect in practice to address the concerns I would have playing him in a start. It was posted that Taysom sucked in Denver. But did he? What is the measure that warranted that impression?

The team ran for 229 yards, 307 total yard, Tyasom completed 56.25% of his passes with 1 Int. and ran for 41 yards and 2 TDs.

Only the completion rate and interception stand out to me. There is a fair amount of cross over between those saying Taysom had a bad game and those asking to see Winston get a chance next week.

So I decided to look deeper into the Taysom had a bad game argument and see how his bad compares to Jameis Winston's 7 worst games last year.

These are seven of his eight losses last year they are sorted by completion percentage.

The first thing that jumps out at me is that Winston played six games where he has a lower completion percentage than Taysom in Denver.

Much has been made of Taysom throwing a single interception this week and a fumble last week. In contrast, in the 7 games, Jameis has 2 games with 2 interceptions, 1 with 3, 2 with 4, and one with a whopping 5 interceptions.

On top of the crazy interception count, he had 9 fumbles in 7 games..

Over this 7 game slate, he scored an average of 1.6 TDs per game.

Over his two starts, Taysim's average is 2 TDs.

If Taysom sucked in Denver it is very hard not to say that Jameis sucked in these 7 games.

The last stat is maybe the most important. Taysom 2-0 Jameis 0-7

This is funny. You are comparing a guy with just 2 NFL starts at QB with a guy that started 5 straight years and has a pro-bowl appearance. Taysom can only dream of having his stats. Both QBs have issues, but Taysom can only dream of having the arm talent that Jameis has.

Passing

• * Selected to Pro Bowl, + First-Team All-Pro
• Glossary
• Toggle Per-Game Stats

Year	Age	Tm	piece of work	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
2015*	21	TAM	QB	3	16	16	6-10-0	312	535	58.3	4042	22	4.1	15	2.8	201	68	7.6	7.1	13.0	252.6	84.2	61.1	27	190	6.85	6.44	4.8	2	3	13
2016	22	TAM	QB	3	16	16	9-7-0	345	567	60.8	4090	28	4.9	18	3.2	216	45	7.2	6.8	11.9	255.6	86.1	59.7	35	239	6.40	5.98	5.8	1	3	12
2017	23	TAM	QB	3	13	13	3-10-0	282	442	63.8	3504	19	4.3	11	2.5	185	70	7.9	7.7	12.4	269.5	92.2	54.0	33	207	6.94	6.70	6.9	2	2	10
2018	24	TAM	QB	3	11	9	3-6-0	244	378	64.6	2992	19	5.0	14	3.7	152	64	7.9	7.3	12.3	272.0	90.2	69.7	27	157	7.00	6.38	6.7	0	1	9
2019	25	TAM	QB	3	16	16	7-9-0	380	626	60.7	5109	33	5.3	30	4.8	243	71	8.2	7.1	13.4	319.3	84.3	59.1	47	282	7.17	6.15	7.0	2	2	15
2020	26	NOR		2	3	0		7	11	63.6	75	0	0.0	0	0.0	5	19	6.8	6.8	10.7	25.0	83.5	14.9	2	11	4.92	4.92	15.4
Career				75	70	28-42-0	1570	2559	61.4	19812	121	4.7	88	3.4	1002	71	7.7	7.1	12.6	264.2	86.9		171	1086	6.86	6.30	6.3	7	11	59
5 yrs	TAM			72	70	28-42-0	1563	2548	61.3	19737	121	4.7	88	3.5	997	71	7.7	7.1	12.6	274.1	86.9		169	1075	6.87	6.30	6.2	7	11	59
1 yr	NOR			3	0		7	11	63.6	75	0	0.0	0	0.0	5	19	6.8	6.8	10.7	25.0	83.5		2	11	4.92	4.92	15.4

 

[Meachemdat]

This is the exact same gameplan we saw when Teddy was in for Drew last year.
Don't take chances, don't turn the ball over, just take time off the clock and let the defense set the tone.

Sean has a lot of faith in his defense and not a lot of faith that Jameis won't take unnecessary chances it seems.

 

[sfidc3]

I believe Payton changed the game plan after the Broncos QB situation (or lack thereof) surfaced... I believe Hill when he said he was instructed by CSP to be safe and protect the ball.

You can believe whatever you like from your manc ave. I’ll put my faith and trust in the guys that are actually there and doing it.

I think this is spot on. And I was one of those that was surprised that Winston wasn't named the starter. I don't think we are going to see Winston on the field at QB unless Taysom is hurt or has a disaster type bad game but I also didn't think Taysom would be the starter. I guess I simply don't think his play thus far should warrant benching him....

 

[CowtownSaint]

I won't speak for Payton but Jameis would need to be darn near perfect in practice to address the concerns I would have playing him in a start. It was posted that Taysom sucked in Denver. But did he? What is the measure that warranted that impression?

The team ran for 229 yards, 307 total yard, Tyasom completed 56.25% of his passes with 1 Int. and ran for 41 yards and 2 TDs.

Only the completion rate and interception stand out to me. There is a fair amount of cross over between those saying Taysom had a bad game and those asking to see Winston get a chance next week.

So I decided to look deeper into the Taysom had a bad game argument and see how his bad compares to Jameis Winston's 7 worst games last year.

These are seven of his eight losses last year they are sorted by completion percentage.

The first thing that jumps out at me is that Winston played six games where he has a lower completion percentage than Taysom in Denver.

Much has been made of Taysom throwing a single interception this week and a fumble last week. In contrast, in the 7 games, Jameis has 2 games with 2 interceptions, 1 with 3, 2 with 4, and one with a whopping 5 interceptions.

On top of the crazy interception count, he had 9 fumbles in 7 games..

Over this 7 game slate, he scored an average of 1.6 TDs per game.

Over his two starts, Taysim's average is 2 TDs.

If Taysom sucked in Denver it is very hard not to say that Jameis sucked in these 7 games.

The last stat is maybe the most important. Taysom 2-0 Jameis 0-7

Excellent stat.

here’s what people don’t seem to get about Winston. He’s a career loser, as in he finds any way possible to lose games. He doesn’t know how to finish snd in big moments he makes big time bad mistakes.

the opposite is true for Taysom, he’s a winner in that he has sparked this team more times over the years than most I can remember to help lead come backs or help us control games. In big moments Hill almost always makes the big plays needed to win. He doesn’t make foolish mistakes that cost games.

you can lose with stats or win ugly sometimes and I have been so shocked at the amount of fans that prefer to take a chance to lose with stats.

The cold hard truth of the matter is that Winston, although a starter in Tampa, is a losing QB, we act like TB was soooooo unstoppable with him at the helm. Why would we want to play a QB that not one other team wanted to sign this offseason, that was cut by a crumby Tampa team? This isn’t a Teddy Situation, Teddy was also a proven winner before injury he had the Vikings rolling

Taysom needs to be more focused and we have to have a better plan for him. This past game was such an anomaly, I don’t think a lot of fans understand why things changed on Saturday night for BOTH teams.

Hill will continue to start, he’s a winner and in 2-0 this run. Why would we add Winston? Makes no sense.

We will see a more accurate representation of Taysom this week with a full weeks plan into place against a team with a QB again. He will continue to have ups and downs in these first starts but if we keep blowing teams out I don’t see why there should be any speculation.