Surprise Winston start next week? (1 Viewer)

[CowtownSaint]

Interesting perspective captain defensive. Now let me ask you a question, if Taysom Hill was on any other team playing yesterday and played like that would you still be so overly guarding of him? Bro you sound super knowledgeable about football don't get me wrong and if it sounds like I'm being a butt than I apologize, but honest to God did that look like a starting QB in Mile high yesterday like seriously? In my opinion, (cause this is a forum and I'm allowed to have one without having to play professional sports) this just doesn't look like it's going to work. Sure he did do a few things well in both games and hopefully he builds on that but none of those plays can mask his overall makeup. He has terrible mechanics, low football I.Q. indecisive, and not very accurate. That's what he displays on the football field at that position, PERIOD! I call it how I see it man, I'm a Who Dat just like you, but I just don't agree with CSP decision to start him over Crab legs bro it's just my opinion man. If Drew out long term this ain't gone end well.

He’s not on any other team he’s on this team. Which. Game plan changing Saturday night and tasked with managing the game for Payton while we just run the ball basically all game.

you can’t compare it to any other team of any other situation because the Broncos game is unprecedented in the NFL.

you have no idea what he was told but from what CSP has said Taysom did exactly what coach told him to do to win.

so in that regard in going to trust Coach on that.

he sure looked good last week against Atlanta, and so let’s revisit this topic Sunday afte another proper week of game plan and prep.

 

[Saint Spud]

Here’s the problem with the Taysom stuff: you have so much more info/media available now than ever before. And people who are really good at breaking it down from a 10,000-foot level. People like @RevDeuceWindham are awesome at what they do.

The issue, though, is its impossible to quantify what’s going on in the huddle and the headset. So, even though it’s clear that Taysom missed some reads, how much of that is because he was too much in his own head bc of what Payton had hammered into him? Payton and Taysom both suggested that this game was a one-off because of the circumstances.

I actually thought this start for Taysom had some similarities to Jameis’ game vs SF. Both players looked like they were super conservative and concerned about ball security, likely because of the circumstances. Although it’s fair to point out that Jameis threw a couple more nice passes that game and didn’t have any starter reps that week.

Anyway, I can’t see them going away from Taysom based on Sunday, as bad as it looked, even on review. There was so much other stuff going on. But I do think this Sunday’s game will be very telling bc of the amount of film the Falcons now have, not to mention the fact they’ve already played against him.

 

[ThrowbackSaintXXL]

I won't speak for Payton but Jameis would need to be darn near perfect in practice to address the concerns I would have playing him in a start. It was posted that Taysom sucked in Denver. But did he? What is the measure that warranted that impression?

The team ran for 229 yards, 307 total yard, Tyasom completed 56.25% of his passes with 1 Int. and ran for 41 yards and 2 TDs.

Only the completion rate and interception stand out to me. There is a fair amount of cross over between those saying Taysom had a bad game and those asking to see Winston get a chance next week.

So I decided to look deeper into the Taysom had a bad game argument and see how his bad compares to Jameis Winston's 7 worst games last year.

These are seven of his eight losses last year they are sorted by completion percentage.

The first thing that jumps out at me is that Winston played six games where he has a lower completion percentage than Taysom in Denver.

Much has been made of Taysom throwing a single interception this week and a fumble last week. In contrast, in the 7 games, Jameis has 2 games with 2 interceptions, 1 with 3, 2 with 4, and one with a whopping 5 interceptions.

On top of the crazy interception count, he had 9 fumbles in 7 games..

Over this 7 game slate, he scored an average of 1.6 TDs per game.

Over his two starts, Taysim's average is 2 TDs.

If Taysom sucked in Denver it is very hard not to say that Jameis sucked in these 7 games.

The last stat is maybe the most important. Taysom 2-0 Jameis 0-7

Dude c'mon. Hill fancies himself a QB & has been so-called mimicking Brees for 4 yrs but ain't even aware of the play clock & is too indecisive to even execute screen passes to a guy like freaking Kamara!!!

Jameis would @ the very least toss the damn ball!!! Hell we're still waiting for Hill to throw 1 TD pass

 

[Infoman]

These threads are always fun to bump later on down the road for the crowd that consistently doubts/questions Sean's personnel decision making... Very similar to how fun the thread was when all the same people said that Winston would start over Taysom after the 49ers game...

These threads always end well, and never make people look silly or eat their words.... /sarcasm

(Saving this space for my hotdog gif)

 

[Saint Taysom]

Dude c'mon. Hill fancies himself a QB & has been so-called mimicking Brees for 4 yrs but ain't even aware of the play clock & is too indecisive to even execute screen passes to a guy like freaking Kamara!!!

Jameis would @ the very least toss the damn ball!!! Hell we're still waiting for Hill to throw 1 TD pass

...and in those 4 years, he has consistently split time during the practice week between the QB room, the WR/TE room, and the special teams meetings... Also, aside from the last 2 weeks, how many actual QB snaps (not 1-off gimmicky type plays) has Taysom Hill had? ...snaps where Taysom is running the offense and setting things up etc...
0.

 

[Covington Saint]

Taysom Sucks.

Taysom can't throw the ball.

Taysom can't read defenses.

Taysom can't blah blah blah.


Seems like Coach Payton has the exact impression he wants people to have of Taysom. Coach Payton just needs to call and allow taysom to execute an offense that is aggressive and designed for Taysom to have success. Mix in some design runs and some elaborate routes that actually allow someone to get open. Deonte Harris maybe coming back will be big to take top of the D.

 

[whodatsaint]

People, we are winning with Taysom. He’s scoring TDs with his legs. Who cares if his passing needs work? We put Winston in and we get a mediocre qb who was cut by his last team for good reasons, who is predictable, who other teams have years of film on, and who can’t do half of what Taysom can do. SP knows what he’s doing. This love for Winston is built on unrealistic expectations.

 

[meily]

I don't think Winston despite his talent is a fit for this offense.

 

[KingChris504]

He’s not on any other team he’s on this team. Which. Game plan changing Saturday night and tasked with managing the game for Payton while we just run the ball basically all game.

you can’t compare it to any other team of any other situation because the Broncos game is unprecedented in the NFL.

you have no idea what he was told but from what CSP has said Taysom did exactly what coach told him to do to win.

so in that regard in going to trust Coach on that.

he sure looked good last week against Atlanta, and so let’s revisit this topic Sunday afte another proper week of game plan and prep.

I truly hate continuing beat a dead horse, but Taysom played terrible man and the things he did bad on Sunday I just don't think can be improved significantly at his age bro. I understand the whole gameplan change thing but ultimately that's my opinion. I didn't think he lit the on fire against Falcons, and quite frankly my worse fear is that game particularly may be his ceiling. God knows I hope I'm wrong cause I love my team. I'm a chef so I will have some crow marinating on Saturday night. If I'm wrong I'll gladly bbq that bird and eat that sucka proudly. But we indeed shall revisit this topic on Sunday......

 

[KingChris504]

People, we are winning with Taysom. He’s scoring TDs with his legs. Who cares if his passing needs work? We put Winston in and we get a mediocre qb who was cut by his last team for good reasons, who is predictable, who other teams have years of film on, and who can’t do half of what Taysom can do. SP knows what he’s doing. This love for Winston is built on unrealistic expectations.

Could've sworn the mediocre qb you referring to threw for 33 TD's and 5k yards last season. The guy you are defending has yet to throw a TD, and first career start was two weeks ago. Unrealistic expectations huh bud?

 

[whodatsaint]

Could've sworn the mediocre qb you referring to threw for 33 TD's and 5k yards last season. The guy you are defending has yet to throw a TD, and first career start was two weeks ago. Unrealistic expectations huh bud?

And last season under his leadership his team went 7-9, was third in the division and missed the playoffs. Those are realistic expectations.

 

[Grilled Brees Sandwich]

Hey I think Hill should start and I am in the Jameis camp. Hill had a rough game, which will happen to guys getting their first shot at QB in the league. How and if he bounces back will be important to see.

Some of you need to stop with Jameis bashing too. Remember, he is a Saint. He is not a loser or the main reason Tampa was losing. Tampa sucked when he got there and has a terrible front office. He was on his third Coach in five years. They had a terrible defense,terrible line and mundane running backs. He did end up with some good receivers but they were always hurt. Oh yeah and they had terrible kickers too. Winston literally lost 5 starts because of kicking nightmares.

 

[Ihartsaints]

This is funny. You are comparing a guy with just 2 NFL starts at QB with a guy that started 5 straight years and has a pro-bowl appearance. Taysom can only dream of having his stats. Both QBs have issues, but Taysom can only dream of having the arm talent that Jameis has.

Passing

• * Selected to Pro Bowl, + First-Team All-Pro
• Glossary
• Toggle Per-Game Stats

Year	Age	Tm	piece of work	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
2015*	21	TAM	QB	3	16	16	6-10-0	312	535	58.3	4042	22	4.1	15	2.8	201	68	7.6	7.1	13.0	252.6	84.2	61.1	27	190	6.85	6.44	4.8	2	3	13
2016	22	TAM	QB	3	16	16	9-7-0	345	567	60.8	4090	28	4.9	18	3.2	216	45	7.2	6.8	11.9	255.6	86.1	59.7	35	239	6.40	5.98	5.8	1	3	12
2017	23	TAM	QB	3	13	13	3-10-0	282	442	63.8	3504	19	4.3	11	2.5	185	70	7.9	7.7	12.4	269.5	92.2	54.0	33	207	6.94	6.70	6.9	2	2	10
2018	24	TAM	QB	3	11	9	3-6-0	244	378	64.6	2992	19	5.0	14	3.7	152	64	7.9	7.3	12.3	272.0	90.2	69.7	27	157	7.00	6.38	6.7	0	1	9
2019	25	TAM	QB	3	16	16	7-9-0	380	626	60.7	5109	33	5.3	30	4.8	243	71	8.2	7.1	13.4	319.3	84.3	59.1	47	282	7.17	6.15	7.0	2	2	15
2020	26	NOR		2	3	0		7	11	63.6	75	0	0.0	0	0.0	5	19	6.8	6.8	10.7	25.0	83.5	14.9	2	11	4.92	4.92	15.4
Career				75	70	28-42-0	1570	2559	61.4	19812	121	4.7	88	3.4	1002	71	7.7	7.1	12.6	264.2	86.9		171	1086	6.86	6.30	6.3	7	11	59
5 yrs	TAM			72	70	28-42-0	1563	2548	61.3	19737	121	4.7	88	3.5	997	71	7.7	7.1	12.6	274.1	86.9		169	1075	6.87	6.30	6.2	7	11	59
1 yr	NOR			3	0		7	11	63.6	75	0	0.0	0	0.0	5	19	6.8	6.8	10.7	25.0	83.5		2	11	4.92	4.92	15.4

OK, let us review Winston v. Hill .

Since you are comparing him to Taysom who has started 2 of what is likely to be 4 games it is only fair to compare Winston's first 4 games.



Taysom's first game 78% completion scored 2 TDs and had 1 fumble and 0 interception
Jameis' first game 48% completion scored 2 TDs and had 2 fumble and 2 interception

Taysom's second game 56% completion scored 2 TDs and had 1 fumble and 1 interception
Jameis' second game 67% completion scored 2 TDs and had 1 fumble and 0 interception

Average for the first two games
Taysom 67.26 % completion 2 TDs/gm 0.5 interceptions/gm 1.0 fumbles/gm
Jameis 57.58 % completion 2 TDs/gm 1.0 interceptions/gm 1.5 fumbles/gm

Two games into both their careers and Taysom is clearly ahead. After the next two games would you like to wager who is ahead then? I don't foresee Taysom throwing 5 interceptions in the next two games. Do you?

Now let's look at Winston's Arm talent

• 70 career starts
• 24 games or just over 1/3 had a worse completion rate than Taysom did in Denver and we all agree Taysom was subpar in Denver. One-third of Winston's starts or 5 plus games every season he is worse than Taysom's bad day.
• In 70 starts Winston rushed for 10 TDs. In Taysom's first two starts he has rushed for 4 TDs. Put another way, that average would equate to 140 Rushing TDs over 70 games. In comparison, Jameis has only 128 passing and rushing career TDs as a starter. Ouch. Even if Taysom never threw a TD pass he would likely eclipse Jameis Winston's TD production.
• In Winston's entire career of 70 starts he never once had a competition % higher than Taysom did in his very first start.

I'd really like to know how you define ARM TALENT.

 

[Ihartsaints]

Hey I think Hill should start and I am in the Jameis camp. Hill had a rough game, which will happen to guys getting their first shot at QB in the league. How and if he bounces back will be important to see.

Some of you need to stop with Jameis bashing too. Remember, he is a Saint. He is not a loser or the main reason Tampa was losing. Tampa sucked when he got there and has a terrible front office. He was on his third Coach in five years. They had a terrible defense,terrible line and mundane running backs. He did end up with some good receivers but they were always hurt. Oh yeah and they had terrible kickers too. Winston literally lost 5 starts because of kicking nightmares.

1. Taysom had a bad day in Denver.
2. 34% of the time, Jameis had a worse completion rate.
3. Jameis has never had a higher completion rate than Taysom did in his first start.
4. You are correct, Taysom should start.

 

[ElGatoNegro]

OK, let us review Winston v. Hill .

Since you are comparing him to Taysom who has started 2 of what is likely to be 4 games it is only fair to compare Winston's first 4 games.



Taysom's first game 78% completion scored 2 TDs and had 1 fumble and 0 interception
Jameis' first game 48% completion scored 2 TDs and had 2 fumble and 2 interception

Taysom's second game 56% completion scored 2 TDs and had 1 fumble and 1 interception
Jameis' second game 67% completion scored 2 TDs and had 1 fumble and 0 interception

Average for the first two games
Taysom 67.26 % completion 2 TDs/gm 0.5 interceptions/gm 1.0 fumbles/gm
Jameis 57.58 % completion 2 TDs/gm 1.0 interceptions/gm 1.5 fumbles/gm

Two games into both their careers and Taysom is clearly ahead. After the next two games would you like to wager who is ahead then? I don't foresee Taysom throwing 5 interceptions in the next two games. Do you?

Now let's look at Winston's Arm talent

• 70 career starts
• 24 games or just over 1/3 had a worse completion rate than Taysom did in Denver and we all agree Taysom was subpar in Denver. One-third of Winston's starts or 5 plus games every season he is worse than Taysom's bad day.
• In 70 starts Winston rushed for 10 TDs. In Taysom's first two starts he has rushed for 4 TDs. Put another way, that average would equate to 140 Rushing TDs over 70 games. In comparison, Jameis has only 128 passing and rushing career TDs as a starter. Ouch. Even if Taysom never threw a TD pass he would likely eclipse Jameis Winston's TD production.
• In Winston's entire career of 70 starts he never once had a competition % higher than Taysom did in his very first start.

I'd really like to know how you define ARM TALENT.

Lol, I think it is a horrible comparison, but it's very similar to the parallel Winston fans try to draw between the start of his career and the start of Peyton Manning's career...