Survivor 42 (1 Viewer)

[FullMonte]

Didn’t like Cochran at all initially, damn Benedict Arnold. He eventually drew on me. Cirie m, meh. She was never good at challenges just mastered the art of being everyone’s friend. I may be the only one that can’t stand Maryanne. The over the top behavior just makes me cringe and turn the volume down. Jonathan will be gone as soon as tribes change or merge. Nice and athletic? Not here buddy. I always liked the villains as well. The best survivor of all time was Russell. He competed well, lied, cheated, all kinds of shenanigans. This season there is no one I am cheering for though. Which isn’t uncommon for me in the beginning of the season.

I didn't really like Russell. He started off entertaining, but he never grasped the concept that simply finding idols and maniupulating people automatically earned you the win. He thought he could do that, and be as mean as he wanted, and he would win the game. Even after losing to a horribly bitter jury, he came right back and did the exact same thing again. It's like the guy couldn't learn from his mistakes.

As for Cirie, the way she grew from a person afraid of leaves to being a huge conniving villain was fun to watch.

 

[Semper]

I didn't really like Russell. He started off entertaining, but he never grasped the concept that simply finding idols and maniupulating people automatically earned you the win. He thought he could do that, and be as mean as he wanted, and he would win the game. Even after losing to a horribly bitter jury, he came right back and did the exact same thing again. It's like the guy couldn't learn from his mistakes.

As for Cirie, the way she grew from a person afraid of leaves to being a huge conniving villain was fun to watch.

I agree. Would love to see a season of 2nd place finishers only.

 

[Semper]

Last post on this thread was a month ago. Has the kindly of reality shows crashed to earth?

Personally I am done. I encourage the show to be all inclusive in its cast. I don’t care about their race, sexual orientation etc but this show has seemed to go so far as to make this their focal point. I have never missed an episode before, always looked forward to the show. Me and friends and family used to do a survivor fantasy draft every year. I loved this show. I believed that this show was already fair. I don’t know the exact numbers but I know men, women and all types of ethnicities have won this game.

Now it feels it is staged, survivor is shouting “hey look at me!” But I believe the audience has always looked at Survivor all inclusive without the constant pandering.

To be fair it hasn’t just been the last 2 seasons. I started not caring as much the more they seemed to add idols etc. I have always preferred the older model. No idols, no food etc.

So for the very first time Survivor is no longer on my DVR. I know this isn’t an airport and their is no reason to announce my departure etc but I loved this show and was hoping for a little conversation to see if I am the only one etc.

 

[Booker]

As far as the game goes, I've got a mixed opinion about all the new gimmicks. On the one hand they keep it unpredictable, which is a good thing as it prevents anyone from truly controlling the game. But some things, such as "turning back time" to reverse a challenge outcome, seem to really take away the actual gameplay elements (outwit, outplay, outlast) and turn it into a game of chance. They should dial this back a little next season.

As far as the racial discussions at tribal council the last couple of seasons, it's not something they need to dwell on week to week, and I'm hopeful that having some good conversations addressing it head on will allow them to move past it -- because that's not what people want to see week in an week out.

But it's part of the social game, and I think last weeks episode in particular was a great example of how uncomfortable this issue can make people. I don't think it's inaccurate to recognize that minorities are often voted out early -- not because they're targeted for being a minority, but maybe because early on every little thing matters when people are trying make bonds and fit it (older people are often voted out early for the same reason).

So with that background, when Drea walks into tribal council and sees Channelle and Rocksroy already voted out, and feeling (correctly) like she's the next on the chopping block, I could see her heart sink on her face. Were they voted out because they were black? I never got that feeling. But nonetheless, it was about to be three on a row.

And I thought when Jonathan tried to speak up it was a bit of a microcosm of racial discussion in America, where people speak past each other. Here you had Drea trying to explain her position as a minority, and that it hurt to see fellow minorities removed in succession, and Jonathan felt he needed to make it about him ("I feel like you're calling me a racist and I'm not a racist"), totally missing the point.

He was never called a racist, nor was anyone else. It wasn't about him. It was simply observed that minorities feel like they have an extra obstacle to conquer, and that they were seeing it play out in real time, where there didn't even need to be an overt strategy to remove the black players, it was just happening.

 

[Tapxe]

Drea walks into tribal council and sees Channelle and Rocksroy already voted out, and feeling (correctly) like she's the next on the chopping block, I could see her heart sink on her face. Were they voted out because they were black?

I really don't think it was a racial thing to vote Channelle or Rockroy. Channelle torpedo'ed herself by risking a vote and then voting against Mike. She made herself seem unpredictable to her alliance and Omar probably told anyone who'd listen how she did him. I don't think she meant to do it, but it might have been worse than the crap Tori was doing since she hurt her alliance prospects and Tori was always on the outs. At least, that's how I'd view it out there.

As for Rocks, he unfortunately showed up in dad mode. He probably didn't realize it or he wouldn't have, but plenty of his tribe mates were willing to use that and his new found desire to dictate a men only alliance as reason.

I agree that Drea likely would have gone but for a 100% different reason. She's got a ton of power in idols and extra vote. Ya gotta blindside that and she was vulnerable with the way the game played out. Once she announced she was playing the idol, Maryanne became the target. Good for both playing idols even if it was for a different reason than why they needed to play em.

Tori didn't deserve to stay. Her game wasn't very good and Jeff made that quite clear calling her out in front of everyone. She'd just been lucky to that point to survive and wasn't on the block because she'd made enough enemies you want to take her to tribal.

 

[Semper]

As far as the game goes, I've got a mixed opinion about all the new gimmicks. On the one hand they keep it unpredictable, which is a good thing as it prevents anyone from truly controlling the game. But some things, such as "turning back time" to reverse a challenge outcome, seem to really take away the actual gameplay elements (outwit, outplay, outlast) and turn it into a game of chance. They should dial this back a little next season.

As far as the racial discussions at tribal council the last couple of seasons, it's not something they need to dwell on week to week, and I'm hopeful that having some good conversations addressing it head on will allow them to move past it -- because that's not what people want to see week in an week out.

But it's part of the social game, and I think last weeks episode in particular was a great example of how uncomfortable this issue can make people. I don't think it's inaccurate to recognize that minorities are often voted out early -- not because they're targeted for being a minority, but maybe because early on every little thing matters when people are trying make bonds and fit it (older people are often voted out early for the same reason).

So with that background, when Drea walks into tribal council and sees Channelle and Rocksroy already voted out, and feeling (correctly) like she's the next on the chopping block, I could see her heart sink on her face. Were they voted out because they were black? I never got that feeling. But nonetheless, it was about to be three on a row.

And I thought when Jonathan tried to speak up it was a bit of a microcosm of racial discussion in America, where people speak past each other. Here you had Drea trying to explain her position as a minority, and that it hurt to see fellow minorities removed in succession, and Jonathan felt he needed to make it about him ("I feel like you're calling me a racist and I'm not a racist"), totally missing the point.

He was never called a racist, nor was anyone else. It wasn't about him. It was simply observed that minorities feel like they have an extra obstacle to conquer, and that they were seeing it play out in real time, where there didn't even need to be an overt strategy to remove the black players, it was just happening.

My issue is before when Drea helped cast a vote to get a minority out she had no issue. But when it was her it was. I understand that there are still issues in regards to race that need to be fixed, I don’t have the answers. I feel I have done Oma’s a person and better as a father. All three of my daughters have dated minorities and 2 are in long term relationships with minorities. I just don’t want to try and relax and see this each and every week.

More importantly though the go back in time junk, and there are so many advantages in the game I can’t keep up with who has what.

 

[FullMonte]

As far as the game goes, I've got a mixed opinion about all the new gimmicks. On the one hand they keep it unpredictable, which is a good thing as it prevents anyone from truly controlling the game. But some things, such as "turning back time" to reverse a challenge outcome, seem to really take away the actual gameplay elements (outwit, outplay, outlast) and turn it into a game of chance. They should dial this back a little next season.

As far as the racial discussions at tribal council the last couple of seasons, it's not something they need to dwell on week to week, and I'm hopeful that having some good conversations addressing it head on will allow them to move past it -- because that's not what people want to see week in an week out.

But it's part of the social game, and I think last weeks episode in particular was a great example of how uncomfortable this issue can make people. I don't think it's inaccurate to recognize that minorities are often voted out early -- not because they're targeted for being a minority, but maybe because early on every little thing matters when people are trying make bonds and fit it (older people are often voted out early for the same reason).

So with that background, when Drea walks into tribal council and sees Channelle and Rocksroy already voted out, and feeling (correctly) like she's the next on the chopping block, I could see her heart sink on her face. Were they voted out because they were black? I never got that feeling. But nonetheless, it was about to be three on a row.

And I thought when Jonathan tried to speak up it was a bit of a microcosm of racial discussion in America, where people speak past each other. Here you had Drea trying to explain her position as a minority, and that it hurt to see fellow minorities removed in succession, and Jonathan felt he needed to make it about him ("I feel like you're calling me a racist and I'm not a racist"), totally missing the point.

He was never called a racist, nor was anyone else. It wasn't about him. It was simply observed that minorities feel like they have an extra obstacle to conquer, and that they were seeing it play out in real time, where there didn't even need to be an overt strategy to remove the black players, it was just happening.

As far as the game goes, I too am mixed on it. I don't like the "If I could Turn Back Time" thing at all. Undoing a challenge win is completely against the idea of "outwit outlast outplay." I also don't like the "Knowledge Is Power" advantage for this season (or last season). The idea of a power where you can take an advantage or idol from someone when the people who have idols are basically required to tell EVERYONE that they have one at challenges is way too much power. However, I do like what it will do for the future. Knowing it's a possibility, maybe the people who find idols/advantages in the future will work harder to keep them a secret.

Now, as far as Tribal Council, I don't see this one as so much of the show trying to make a point about racial issues (unlike last season of Big Brother). I think that was a legit reaction by players of color seeing that two of the four black people were voted out consecutively. And, while Tapxe is right about the reasons why it appeared they were voted out, we have all of that information while Drea and Maryann didn't. With that said, though, I will say that Marynn's statement that really started the whole thing down the path it went down seemed "off" to me. Everything seemed ok, Drea said she was going to play her idol, Jonathan asked her who she wanted to do, and she said Tori. Jonathan told Maryann that they were going to do Tori, and to tell Tori that they were going to split the votes like the original plan was. Tori started to plead her case, and suddenly, Maryann says "I can't write down Drea's name." Why did she say that? She wasn't going to write down Drea's name. They were going to write down Tori's name. So, that just seemed odd to me.

 

[Terrence]

So with that background, when Drea walks into tribal council and sees Channelle and Rocksroy already voted out, and feeling (correctly) like she's the next on the chopping block, I could see her heart sink on her face. Were they voted out because they were black? I never got that feeling. But nonetheless, it was about to be three on a row.

And I thought when Jonathan tried to speak up it was a bit of a microcosm of racial discussion in America, where people speak past each other. Here you had Drea trying to explain her position as a minority, and that it hurt to see fellow minorities removed in succession, and Jonathan felt he needed to make it about him ("I feel like you're calling me a racist and I'm not a racist"), totally missing the point.

He was never called a racist, nor was anyone else. It wasn't about him. It was simply observed that minorities feel like they have an extra obstacle to conquer, and that they were seeing it play out in real time, where there didn't even need to be an overt strategy to remove the black players, it was just happening.

I think he lacked the ability to show empathy and just listen. Sometimes we minorities are asking others to just listen. We are always / often not looking to make someone the blame for yesteryear.

I, as a black guy, felt the look, the lost hope, and then the response that it is "not me" from Hercules.

Its been a very good season, even more compared to last.

 

[Booker]

I really don't think it was a racial thing to vote Channelle or Rockroy. Channelle torpedo'ed herself by risking a vote and then voting against Mike. She made herself seem unpredictable to her alliance and Omar probably told anyone who'd listen how she did him. I don't think she meant to do it, but it might have been worse than the crap Tori was doing since she hurt her alliance prospects and Tori was always on the outs. At least, that's how I'd view it out there.

As for Rocks, he unfortunately showed up in dad mode. He probably didn't realize it or he wouldn't have, but plenty of his tribe mates were willing to use that and his new found desire to dictate a men only alliance as reason.

I agree that Drea likely would have gone but for a 100% different reason. She's got a ton of power in idols and extra vote. Ya gotta blindside that and she was vulnerable with the way the game played out. Once she announced she was playing the idol, Maryanne became the target. Good for both playing idols even if it was for a different reason than why they needed to play em.

Tori didn't deserve to stay. Her game wasn't very good and Jeff made that quite clear calling her out in front of everyone. She'd just been lucky to that point to survive and wasn't on the block because she'd made enough enemies you want to take her to tribal.

Completely agree -- I didn't see anything that suggested race entered the discussion or that Channelle or Rocksroy got voted out for anything beyond what you describe. Channelle was unpredictable, Rocksroy was a difficult teammate, and Drea is a threat with all of her advantages. In isolation there are valid reasons for voting them all out, but it still looks like a pattern, and I can understand how that could hit a nerve and create an emotional reaction.

 

[Tapxe]

I think he lacked the ability to show empathy and just listen

This is very much true. It's a learned behavior. I won't say it's because he's a white male, because that type of reaction is not bound by race or gender.

I'm reading I Hear You by Michael Sorensen and it points out how people in general fail to acknowledge and validate others POV. It's a barrier to communication and common ground.

 

[Semper]

I think he lacked the ability to show empathy and just listen. Sometimes we minorities are asking others to just listen. We are always / often not looking to make someone the blame for yesteryear.

I as a black guy felt the look, the lost hope, and then the response that it is not me from Hercules.

Its been a very good season, even more compared to last.

Johnathon should have stopped talking. He was wrong. I did not at any point see Drea being aggressive towards him. The entire thing just seemed staged to me. I am happy to see social issues in a show, especially a reality show, but not staged. Toro was already going home. And the week before Drea didn’t have an issue voting off a person of color. So one week it’s fine and the next it isn’t. I don’t get it.

 

[Tapxe]

Johnathon should have stopped talking. He was wrong. I did not at any point see Drea being aggressive towards him. The entire thing just seemed staged to me. I am happy to see social issues in a show, especially a reality show, but not staged. Toro was already going home. And the week before Drea didn’t have an issue voting off a person of color. So one week it’s fine and the next it isn’t. I don’t get it.

I won't argue against your logic. I also allow that it was made by someone with no emotional investment, who slept in a climate controlled building on a soft bed, and under normal nutritional intake. Likely she thought there was a plan, but seeing Rocks over there it triggered a warning. That moment in time she had a lot of things to consider and no time or energy to do it so her mind pulled up the most obvious.

She knew something was off. I won't hold her faulty judgment against her. Fact is, she was right to worry, even if she got the reason incorrect.

 

[Semper]

I won't argue against your logic. I also allow that it was made by someone with no emotional investment, who slept in a climate controlled building on a soft bed, and under normal nutritional intake. Likely she thought there was a plan, but seeing Rocks over there it triggered a warning. That moment in time she had a lot of things to consider and no time or energy to do it so her mind pulled up the most obvious.

She knew something was off. I won't hold her faulty judgment against her. Fact is, she was right to worry, even if she got the reason incorrect.

Agree.

 

[Booker]

I think he lacked the ability to show empathy and just listen. Sometimes we minorities are asking others to just listen. We are always / often not looking to make someone the blame for yesteryear.

I, as a black guy, felt the look, the lost hope, and then the response that it is "not me" from Hercules.

Its been a very good season, even more compared to last.

Definitely been a better season than last, and there are a lot more likable people to root for than last season. I've been enjoying Omar's game -- I think he's doing a great job of staying under the radar while softly influencing votes -- and also Hai, Drea, and Jonathan (at least until after he won that last immunity).

I don't think we've ever seen anyone dominate physically like Jonathan has, and we've really enjoyed rooting for him in my household, but I was really disappointed in his behavior in the second half of the episode last week. Having to win immunity twice because of the "turn back time" thing should have been a high point for his game. Instead he decided it was time for him to tell the women how it was going to be and how they just needed to do what he said, and he just came across terribly.

So that was a really bad look for him, and then he had his tone deaf moment at tribal council, so even if he can muscle his way to the final vote his social game may have have cost him a chance to win.

 

[boutrous]

I don't think Survivor as a show is pushing any sort of agenda or storyline. What I do see with Survivor and especially with Jeff is that he tries to get everyone's experience and emotions out during tribal council. He's not going to just sit back and let people be quiet. He pushes buttons and asks tough questions and allows people to speak honestly. Look at Drea's face as soon as she walks into to tribal... it's all written there. She wasn't trying to manufacture any sort of storyline, she was instantly pulled out of the game and into a familiar reality for her and rightly so Jeff allowed her to speak her mind about it.