SUV runs through crowd at Christmas parade in Waukesha WI... (27 Viewers)

Dago

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One could make a generalized argument that the media, by making news entertainment, has encouraged nutballs but that isn't what posters are trying to say and singling out just one media source is ridonkulous
 

guidomerkinsrules

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I get that people don't like the media, but I'm really baffled by this line of criticism.

I'm not seeing any difference in the reporting as I've ever seen when people are hit by a car. Even when discussing it we say "such and such was hit by a car". That's not blaming the car, that's just stating a fact of how the injury or death occurred.

I'm not watching much reporting. I've never been into podcasts and social media as an information source (I believe that's why we are in the waning days of America). I've largely unplugged from media because I think the nation is headed for really awful times and I'm trying to focus on joy and my family while I can. I've become a hermit, so other than here I don't really talk to anyone. However, the complaints I'm seeing here are pretty baffling to me. What little I've seen and heard it seems the media is covering this story appropriately.
I think this is all a bit oversimplified- and you usually don’t do that
‘Podcasts’ and even ‘social media’ are (mostly) self-curated
Certainly the is a ‘foreign bot’ issue with social media that must be confronted
But fussing about podcasts is like fussing about the library- sure you can find bad/harmful books in the library, but there are many more great/important books in there
* I will caveat this to say that in the last year or so, there has been a lurch toward media companies gobbling up independent podcasts and hosts - there might be a battle for independent podcast content but that seems like it’s years away
 

brandon8283

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What medium or media doesn’t report with bias?
I didn’t say there was or wasn’t bias.

I asked you to explain why the media would want to undersell this tragedy. In what way would that underselling serve their bias?
 

bclemms

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Now that emotions are running really high let's clear some things up.

There is no such thing as the mainstream media. It's a word that right wing propaganda groups came up with to undermine real news making their opinion based shows the only one "tellling you the real truth". If there is such a thing I would love someone to define it for me. Do we go by ratings? Does that mean since FoxNews is the #1 rated cable news program they are mainstream? If so why are they always talking so badly about themselves?

Next, let's talk about what is news and what is not news. Fox and CNN are not news. They don't even consider themselves news, it's opinion TV with political agendas using fear and racism as well as other emotional topics to create reactions. They are political soap operas.

Places like Newsmax and OAN are purely political propaganda and do not even pretend to disclose funding. Political influencers on Twitter are no better. Just because they have a blue check mark doesn't make them news, it just makes them verified as a person with some notoriety.


Quit confusing your entertainment and need for outrage with news and this entire argument suddenly disappears.
 

BobE

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Next, let's talk about what is news and what is not news. Fox and CNN are not news. They don't even consider themselves news, it's opinion TV with political agendas using fear and racism as well as other emotional topics to create reactions. They are political soap operas.
I would add MSNBC to this

Places like Newsmax and OAN are purely political propaganda and do not even pretend to disclose funding. Political influencers on Twitter are no better. Just because they have a blue check mark doesn't make them news, it just makes them verified as a person with some notoriety.
Are these 2 channels even on TV? I have never seen them so curious

Quit confusing your entertainment and need for outrage with news and this entire argument suddenly disappears.

I'd say just quit watching all news (except for weather) and things will be much better
 

El Caliente

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I didn’t say there was or wasn’t bias.

I asked you to explain why the media would want to undersell this tragedy. In what way would that underselling serve their bias?
If there is a bias then it’s business as usual (overselling or underselling a story). If there isn’t a bias then it’s business as usual.
 

Saint by the Bay

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I think this is all a bit oversimplified- and you usually don’t do that
‘Podcasts’ and even ‘social media’ are (mostly) self-curated
Certainly the is a ‘foreign bot’ issue with social media that must be confronted
But fussing about podcasts is like fussing about the library- sure you can find bad/harmful books in the library, but there are many more great/important books in there
* I will caveat this to say that in the last year or so, there has been a lurch toward media companies gobbling up independent podcasts and hosts - there might be a battle for independent podcast content but that seems like it’s years away
Here's my issue with it.

When you take "information sources" that have no editorial oversight or consequences for lying, combined with a society devoid of critical thinking skills, combined with ever-growing information silos and tribalism, you have issues.

Podcasts allow people to lock even tighter into their information silos and confirmation bias lanes. It fuels it even further because often they are "normal guys" and that validates their warped ideas have merit. I can literally pick out people who are wrapped up in the podcast ecosystem because they all say, nearly word for word, the same things. Some pretty it up with some pseudo-intellectual babble, but it's so clear and obvious.

So yes, it's self-curated, but that's the issue. It's yet another opportunity to hear only what someone wants to hear. While I think people should be allowed to self-curate information, I think the current political and cultural environment shows us human nature and self-curated information aren't compatible. In fact, it's a dangerous combination (but once again a combination that personal freedom requires be allowed).
 

El Caliente

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I think this is all a bit oversimplified- and you usually don’t do that
‘Podcasts’ and even ‘social media’ are (mostly) self-curated
Certainly the is a ‘foreign bot’ issue with social media that must be confronted
But fussing about podcasts is like fussing about the library- sure you can find bad/harmful books in the library, but there are many more great/important books in there
* I will caveat this to say that in the last year or so, there has been a lurch toward media companies gobbling up independent podcasts and hosts - there might be a battle for independent podcast content but that seems like it’s years away
Indeed. I enjoy well done podcasts, and am always looking for a good historical or sports podcast. Suggestions?
 

Xeno

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So no one was confused. Therefore, the communication was clear and in no way misleading.

So why were people outraged?

Just because nobody was fooled doesn't mean there wasn't an attempt to mislead or purposely communicate in a way that's unclear.

What motivation would the media have in underselling this tragedy?

The same motivation they have for anything: Ratings and ad revenue.
 

Xeno

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Now that emotions are running really high let's clear some things up.

There is no such thing as the mainstream media. It's a word that right wing propaganda groups came up with to undermine real news making their opinion based shows the only one "tellling you the real truth". If there is such a thing I would love someone to define it for me. Do we go by ratings? Does that mean since FoxNews is the #1 rated cable news program they are mainstream? If so why are they always talking so badly about themselves?

Next, let's talk about what is news and what is not news. Fox and CNN are not news. They don't even consider themselves news, it's opinion TV with political agendas using fear and racism as well as other emotional topics to create reactions. They are political soap operas.

Places like Newsmax and OAN are purely political propaganda and do not even pretend to disclose funding. Political influencers on Twitter are no better. Just because they have a blue check mark doesn't make them news, it just makes them verified as a person with some notoriety.


Quit confusing your entertainment and need for outrage with news and this entire argument suddenly disappears.

The really sad part is when the big three (CNN, FOX, MSNBC) actually choose to be journalists they're all extremely good at it. Unfortunately there's a lot more money to be made selling outrage and everyone involved knows it.
 

bclemms

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I would add MSNBC to this


Are these 2 channels even on TV? I have never seen them so curious



I'd say just quit watching all news (except for weather) and things will be much better
They are on some cable and satellite providers. There are some others that I know quite a bit about and the way these companies operate are absolutely horrific. Literally 100% funding coming from political super pacs, dark money and unnamed private donors with some really strong ties to foreign groups, domestic terrorist organizations and white supremacy groups. I really wish I could discuss more but due to NDA's I can not. The information is all available publicly and perfectly legal, it's not like it's being kept on top secret government serviers.


News is good. We should all be informed of what is happening around us. News is when it is being presented to you without bias, with as much information as possible and without anyone expressing outrage or telling you how to feel. Unfortunately more than half of our society are completely unable to recognize the difference between news, opinion and propaganda. It's that same group that are then emotionally triggered by propaganda and opinion that seek out more of the same creating a great business opportuinity. That great business opportunity is also great for politicians, special interest groups and extremist groups to use because without tapping into the emotional outrage people would reject their purposes.

It's why every time I retun to the US from international trips this uncontrolable feel of dread and stress comes over me. Americans are living commodities being used up by deeply psychological marketing that now extends into politics and "media" and most of us don't even know it is happening. Our freedoms are being used to take away our freedom. I thought maybe things would calm down after the election but I was wrong.

The "irrational" fear of AI and machine learning being used to control human behavior is not only real but it's already in full swing, we are the crash test dummies.
 
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Xeno

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bclemms

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The really sad part is when the big three (CNN, FOX, MSNBC) actually choose to be journalists they're all extremely good at it. Unfortunately there's a lot more money to be made selling outrage and everyone involved knows it.
They are absolutely good at it. There just isn't a demand for 24 hour news. I can argue there is a need for it because there are so many different needs for investigative journalism but even some of the massive, mind-blowingly big reports that have come out over the last decade are intantly undermined by propaganda. If some of the major news stories in the last decade broke in the 60's they would be historical markers taught in history instead of some side reference that turns into emotional arguments about cancel culture or race baiting.

The motive is money and power. The money from ratings is chump change compared to the money that comes from the power and influence.

I mean seriously, why do you all think data is worth so much?



I'm not trying to threadjack or derail this thread. It just angers me when I see real issues being turned into propaganda arguments. I can make the case that propaganda could have motivated the guy to drive into crowd. I could also argue that propaganda created a whole bunch of other big events over the past few years. The Trump era was dominated by these type of events. It's sad when the Nashville bomber starts to be the most sane of all the people responsible for making these big news stories.
 
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Madmarsha

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There isn't much news anymore. There is only rhetoric. I have to actually search to find facts. That's all I want is facts, then I can decide how I feel about it. That's what we all went through our growing pains of breaking away from our parents/guardians for, so that we can become adults and have our own beliefs. And if I don't have the facts yet, I don't comment. If I was a person of note, that would be a grave problem. If you're a "blue check", you are immediately required to denounce whatever the du jour denouncement is.
 

Madmarsha

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They are on some cable and satellite providers. There are some others that I know quite a bit about and the way these companies operate are absolutely horrific. Literally 100% funding coming from political super pacs, dark money and unnamed private donors with some really strong ties to foreign groups, domestic terrorist organizations and white supremacy groups. I really wish I could discuss more but due to NDA's I can not.


News is good. We should all be informed of what is happening around us. News is when it is being presented to you without bias, with as much information as possible and without anyone expressing outrage or telling you how to feel. Unfortunately more than half of our society are completely unable to recognize the difference between news, opinion and propaganda. It's that same group that are then emotionally triggered by propaganda and opinion that seek out more of the same creating a great business opportuinity. That great business opportunity is also great for politicians, special interest groups and extremist groups to use because without tapping into the emotional outrage people would reject their purposes.

It's why every time I retun to the US from international trips this uncontrolable feel of dread and stress comes over me. Americans are living commodities being used up by deeply psychological marketing that now extends into politics and "media" and most of us don't even know it is happening. Our freedoms are being used to take away our freedom. I thought maybe things would calm down after the election but I was wrong.

The "irrational" fear of AI and machine learning being used to control human behavior is not only real but it's already in full swing, we are the crash test dummies.
Hunnah percent agree with all of this, Mr. Clement.

 

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