Taysom Hill exclusive: Talking life on and off the field with Meghan Payton (1 Viewer)

[meily]

It is long, but truly gives you an inside look. When just view even some of the "heralded" plays and "wins", you can still see (on more plays than would like) better options left on the field, wide open receivers that didn't need to be a 50/50 jump ball and contested catch by the WR.

For me, personally, I am not saying Hill is the best QB in the league and Winston CAN'T be someone who eclipses Hill as a passer and win this job and revitalizing his career. I can only go forensically with where they are at this given moment today with what has been shown and formulate an opinion and look at the major areas of concern. NOT skewed stats, not cherry picked situational stats, etc...the full big picture of what is truly winning games or losing games, progress, etc.

There is a lot of concern in Winston's decision making and that doesn't just get turned off easily. It isn't simply footwork, eye sight, etc...it is a knee jerk, instilled mindset that as much as a player might THINK they have it sorted out, game time pulls that muscle/mental memory out hard. I am not saying it can't be done, but a HUGE task to overcome. Many just flat out bash Hill with an uneducated opinion as being a horrible QB and that isn't the case. Some just blindly tout Hill as the next "big thing", that isn't fair, either. People take Winston's POTENTIAL, have shaped it into he WILL correct everything and do everything he has said...that is a myth until proven otherwise...can he?? We can only wait and see.

This is a great little video and I am right along with King on this including notes on his past coaches, which I have touched upon numerous times.

There are questions about both players, hence why they are both on 1yr deals. I think pointed something out that I myself am concerned about at that is how Winston fits in this offense, can he make those timely intermediate throws or will he throw darts because he lacks touch on his passes, the deep ball may be back into the offense which is a plus but this offense is methodical which opens up its explosiveness.

Taysom Hill has questions about his game also but his main one is can he lead a team over a 16 (17) game season and how good is he win teams are game planning to take away his rushing lanes and confuse him with coverage.

I agree bashing one to promote the other is not ideal but some people just have their favorites so that's going to happen, I myself feel Winston is the man to beat and its not even close, but I have concerns about him myself and its fit more so than talent and ability.

 

[Reddoctober86]

He wasn't underwhelming, he didn't look lost in the pocket, he didn't not extend plays with his feet. Watch the replay films of each start. He was not even "pedestrian". ...But flame on, I guess!

I'm convinced a lot of fans just get their opinion from listening to Tv talking heads that give analysis on players without even watching games.

 

[MV2]

He wasn't underwhelming, he didn't look lost in the pocket, he didn't not extend plays with his feet. Watch the replay films of each start. He was not even "pedestrian". ...But flame on, I guess!

People more qualified than you and I felt he was less than expected and I agree. He did not do well when the pocket broke down. He beat an awful Atlanta Defense twice and looked horrible in Denver. He was far from impressive imo.

 

[Groovepro]

There are questions about both players, hence why they are both on 1yr deals. I think pointed something out that I myself am concerned about at that is how Winston fits in this offense, can he make those timely intermediate throws or will he throw darts because he lacks touch on his passes, the deep ball may be back into the offense which is a plus but this offense is methodical which opens up its explosiveness.

Taysom Hill has questions about his game also but his main one is can he lead a team over a 16 (17) game season and how good is he win teams are game planning to take away his rushing lanes and confuse him with coverage.

I agree bashing one to promote the other is not ideal but some people just have their favorites so that's going to happen, I myself feel Winston is the man to beat and its not even close, but I have concerns about him myself and its fit more so than talent and ability.

Yes. The main difference is you are looking at certain points to form your opinion and still, while having one player as your fave for the position with the things they offer best for what you feel will help the team, you still have concerns and realistic. It is nice to hear that from any side!

 

[Reddoctober86]

People more qualified than you and I felt he was less than expected and I agree. He did not do well when the pocket broke down. He beat an awful Atlanta Defense twice and looked horrible in Denver. He was far from impressive imo.

Explain to me how a guy can have the best third down completion percentage in the entire league, be sixth amongst starters in third down qb rating, average 53 rushing and 277 total yards a game but look horrible? Do you even understand how that sounds?.... Those people you speak of are hardly more qualified. What they say is opinions just like the people on this board which is why it's best to formulate opinions for yourself.

 

[Groovepro]

People more qualified than you and I felt he was less than expected and I agree. He did not do well when the pocket broke down. He beat an awful Atlanta Defense twice and looked horrible in Denver. He was far from impressive imo.

I can respect your statement of "IMO". He didn't "not do well when the pocket broke down"? Watch the tapes, the replay the All 22. He was less "loose" and more inconsistent in his FIRST NFL start as a QB in the first ATL contest, but wasn't one dimensional and didn't look unimpressive. It is just is what it is. Was it a "Prime Time Brees" performance, no, but he helped win the game. ATL always plays up and was not a "roll over defense" in those 2 games. He was more a passing threat in the 2nd one. 73% completion, 2 passing TD's, 232 yards passing and 2/3 4th down conversions is not having trouble in the pocket or being unimpressive in the passing game. Both games had pretty good balance on the attack with rushing by multiple carriers, passes caught by RB's, more spread to the WR's in game 2 than game 1. That is also showing he is running and managing the CSP playcalling.

Here is a pretty good, unbiased look at game 1 with Hill. This is what I came away with studying Hill in that game, and others, almost note for note. The Denver game was an anomaly with a completely different game plan and play calling almost the night before installed that negated the weeks actual practiced install due to the Denver Covid QB debacle.

https://weeklyspiral.com/2020/11/25/taysom-hill-proved-hes-a-starting-quarterback/

 

[MV2]

Explain to me how a guy can have the best third down completion percentage in the entire league, be sixth amongst starters in third down qb rating, average 53 rushing and 277 total yards a game but look horrible? Do you even understand how that sounds?.... Those people you speak of are hardly more qualified. What they say is opinions just like the people on this board which is why it's best to formulate opinions for yourself.

I have my own opinion. You have yours. It's really silly to use stats as an argument when he played 25% of the games and 50% of those were against arguably the worst defense in football and a team that we are beyond familiar with. If he was as great as his supporters on this board suggest he would already be named the starter.

Also suggesting that most board members are supremely knowledgeable about football is not accurate. Most don't even watch film or understand concepts. I respect Underhill and agree that Taysom did not look great.

You denounce folks opinions yet somehow the Taysom fan club's opinions are the ones that are accurate. ✌

 

[MV2]

I can respect your statement of "IMO". He didn't "not do well when the pocket broke down"? Watch the tapes, the replay the All 22. He was less "loose" and more inconsistent in his FIRST NFL start as a QB in the first ATL contest, but wasn't one dimensional and didn't look unimpressive. It is just is what it is. Was it a "Prime Time Brees" performance, no, but he helped win the game. ATL always plays up and was not a "roll over defense" in those 2 games. He was more a passing threat in the 2nd one. 73% completion, 2 passing TD's, 232 yards passing and 2/3 4th down conversions is not having trouble in the pocket or being unimpressive in the passing game. Both games had pretty good balance on the attack with rushing by multiple carriers, passes caught by RB's, more spread to the WR's in game 2 than game 1. That is also showing he is running and managing the CSP playcalling.

Here is a pretty good, unbiased look at game 1 with Hill. This is what I came away with studying Hill in that game, and others, almost note for note. The Denver game was an anomaly with a completely different game plan and play calling almost the night before installed that negated the weeks actual practiced install due to the Denver Covid QB debacle.

https://weeklyspiral.com/2020/11/25/taysom-hill-proved-hes-a-starting-quarterback/

Atlanta was horrible on defense last year. Nothing anybody did against them should be used as a measuring stick for success. Bro we know that team so well that of course he looked better against them than anyone else. Also QBs making their first starts can sometimes shine as there isn't much tape on them. Nobody knew how we would use him or what the offense would look like. Just look at Brees as an example. Once teams had enough film of his dink and dunk approach we couldn't win when it mattered most.

 

[Reddoctober86]

I have my own opinion. You have yours. It's really silly to use stats as an argument when he played 25% of the games and 50% of those were against arguably the worst defense in football and a team that we are beyond familiar with. If he was as great as his supporters on this board suggest he would already be named the starter.

Also suggesting that most board members are supremely knowledgeable about football is not accurate. Most don't even watch film or understand concepts. I respect Underhill and agree that Taysom did not look great.

You denounce folks opinions yet somehow the Taysom fan club's opinions are the ones that are accurate. ✌

...The only person whose opinion matters is Sean Payton's who clearly saw enough from Hill through tape and evaluations to give him the right to earn the starting job through competition instead of just naming Jameis the starter outright and giving him the Entire off-season to settle in to being the starting QB and leader of this franchise and team. But I guess Nick Underhill is more knowledgeable at breaking down film and evaluating players tape than the Head and Offensive coaches of the New Orleans Saints that actually gets paid to do exactly that.

 

[MV2]

...The only person whose opinion matters is Sean Payton's who clearly saw enough from Hill through tape and evaluations to give him the right to earn the starting job through competition instead of just naming Jameis the starter outright and giving him the Entire off-season to settle in to being the starting QB and leader of this franchise and team. But I guess Nick Underhill is more knowledgeable at breaking down film and evaluating players tape than the Head and Offensive coaches of the New Orleans Saints that actually gets paid to do exactly that.

You ignore the mind games that Sean plays in the offseason. There is no way that Sean would tell either one of them that they are the starter in the offseason. And he's seen enough of both to know who he would prefer be the starter.

This "competition" is to bring the best out of both players. But to make each player successful requires two different styles of offenses. Unless he's rolling out two systems in camp the style of offense we run in preseason will speak volumes as to what direction he's leaning towards. Just my opinion.

 

[Reddoctober86]

You ignore the mind games that Sean plays in the offseason. There is no way that Sean would tell either one of them that they are the starter in the offseason. And he's seen enough of both to know who he would prefer be the starter.

This "competition" is to bring the best out of both players. But to make each player successful requires two different styles of offenses. Unless he's rolling out two systems in camp the style of offense we run in preseason will speak volumes as to what direction he's leaning towards. Just my opinion.

The offensive personnel pretty much yells out the starter will be Taysom Hill. There's nothing the saints have done this off-season from a personnel standpoint to suggest this team has any inclination of building a offense around Jameis. We have a group of slow possession receivers and slow blocking Tightends for crying out loud.. I find it rather funny people think Payton and Jameis about to go Air Coryell with this current offensive roster.

 

[MV2]

The offensive personnel pretty much yells out the starter will be Taysom Hill. There's nothing the saints have done this off-season from a personnel standpoint to suggest this team has any inclination of building a offense around Jameis. We have a group of slow possession receivers and slow blocking Tightends for crying out loud.. I find it rather funny people think Payton and Jameis about to go Air Coryell with this current offensive roster.

So you will ignore the receivers we added that have speed? Baker & Mcclesky are speed guys. We didn't add any possession receivers. You do realize Trequan ran a 4.4 and MT ran a 4.5? Deonte Harris isn't slow either. DeAndre Hopkins ran a 4.5. Is he slow?

Our receivers are not slow. Our QB couldn't throw deep balls so we asked guys to run possession type routes to fit Drew's ability. Taysom's deep balls haven't been overly accurate and are usually late and underthrown. There is nothing about this roster that suggest Taysom is the starter.

FWIW, we will likely run more whether it's Taysom or Jameis. Jameis has had his worst moments when he had to carry a team and felt like he had to make a play every time. So by running and controlling the game there will be less stress on either one of them.

This is an example of you guys wanting to support a player so much that you say things that are not even factual. Carry on!

 

[Groovepro]

You ignore the mind games that Sean plays in the offseason. There is no way that Sean would tell either one of them that they are the starter in the offseason. And he's seen enough of both to know who he would prefer be the starter.

This "competition" is to bring the best out of both players. But to make each player successful requires two different styles of offenses. Unless he's rolling out two systems in camp the style of offense we run in preseason will speak volumes as to what direction he's leaning towards. Just my opinion.

For once, I can agree with you on this. CSP is absolutely wanting to get the BEST he can out of each player and be able to see WHO will be the best QB that we can win with. Unless it was Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers, there would still be a "competition" at QB. He doesn't want a guy who can just not lose games, he wants a winning leader and does a disservice to the one he would just give the reigns to. He is pushing them to push themselves. He has not formulated an opinion on Winston as much since hasn't truly seen him DO anything yet realistically in the offense, work extensively with the "ones" or set him up in situational football, which hopefully he can do in the short preseason. I think Winston gets more time on reps than Hill because CSP wants to see more of what he has and the development/progress of Winston. He is giving him every chance...as he should. He is a smart man.

With scheme, he still has to have a QB to run his base offense. There will not be 2 TOTALLY different offenses scripted out for each guy. There are some tweaks, yes, but he still needs WHOEVER is at QB to read defenses and manage a balanced run/pass game. It is still at least 75-80% the same offense no matter who is at the helm.

 

[Big_L]

First, he'd have to be able to throw a touch pass to the most dynamic RB in the NFL. Which he hasn't shown he can do yet. I honestly have to wonder if I was having a stroke when I was watching those games with Taysom in at QB. People keep crowing about the 3-1 record while ignoring he was flat-out awful in stretches and the defense stepped their game up to be absolutely dominant in three of the four games. He also coughed up the ball rather than recognizing man coverage on Deonte Harris and instead held the ball and fumbled. I don't know what people saw that makes them sure he'll easily beat Jameis out. He wasn't playing hero ball, he showed he has fundamental flaws while playing full-time QB. And as I've said before, when you play him at solely QB, you miss him at TE. You miss him on special teams (remember his punt block against Tampa that lit a fire under the team?). Dude is an AMAZING football player. But as a full-time QB, his potential is wasted.

It was the same people who credited the defense the prior season when Teddy took over . . .

 

[Saint Taysom]

In the first Atlanta game Hill had over 200 yds passing at 78.2% completions. Murray became the pass catching RB that game. For rushing, Murray had 49, Hill had 49, Kamara led touches with 13 for 45 and Harris had a single 23 yard run for a total of 166 rushing yards. Thomas and Sanders were 170 of those passing yards. Kamara was utilized (although not as pass catcher) and pretty balanced, efficient attack.

In the second game, Hill was 73% completions with over 200 passing again and 2 TD's. Thomas, Smith, Sanders and Cook were over 200 of those passing yards. Kamara had the most carries of game with 13 for 88 yards and a 5.9 yards per rush avg. Hill had 83 yards with a 5.9 avg rushing. Over 200 yards rushing and passing and pretty evenly distributed around. That is game flow. That is taking what the defense gave and not forcing. Hill played loose, had good reads and mechanics, especially in the 2nd contest. He was looking off safeties. He wasn't "tuck and run first". Hill mechanics look very good and quick feet and looked downfield, got the ball out quick. Atlanta isn't just a whipping post when they play us and step up.

The Eagles game: missed FG at beginning and Kamara popped up a ball right in his hands for the INT. TQS dropped a 1st down (a bit led inside but should have caught). Hill hit Kamara on dumps, made quick reads most of the game and we moved the ball. He chucked it downfield very well and had tight window throws. He held on too long looking for a chunk play and should have tossed to Kamara who was open and took the sack. It wasn't until the end when they had longer developing plays and trying to get back in with chunks he held a bit long waiting for it to develop and Eagles just brought it all game. It was a speed defense and speed offense from Eagles. Hill didn't look pedestrian or lost by any means and he didn't lose us that game. The fumble sucked and he held on too long on that one, I can give you that. Hurts looked like Primte Time Randall Cunningham and he seemed to have at least 2 receiver wide open almost every passing play that wasn't a swing or a screen. Our defense was in slow chase mode that whole game. Jordan looked like Will Smith coming out of retirement. Hill had sacks counted that were runs that didn't make it across the LOS.

Hill was 74% completions for 291, 2 TD's which were nice deep balls and 1 INT that was a pop up by Kamara. The ball was spread around to 9 different receivers and decent balance and productive numbers from MT, TQS, Sanders, AK, and Cook with between 37yds to 84 yds each. It was more of a passing game scheme than run due to how the Eagles play. Hill only had 5 carries and Kamara only had 50 yds with 96 total rushing. Hill didn't lose that game by a MARGIN. Watch the replay of the game highlights. There is a LOT to like, even in the lose, except some pretty embarrassing defense play. I haven't seen that many wide open routes and YAC in a LONG time...and that isn't even touching on Jalen Hurts. He looked unbeatable on all aspects of passing, running, eluding our "pass rush", etc.

As Latt said, if the defense had just even done more than "show up", we had every chance to win that game.

Hill is a better QB than given credit for and showing what he can do. He was not one dimensional in his starts except when followed a very strict game plan with the Denver game that was chess matched from CSP purposefully. There was a lot of balance in the starts with production.

Does Winston have every chance to progress...YES...and he WILL have every opp, but his collection of pro football has shown serious deficiencies that LOSE games to this point. There lies the reason people are going by what they have seen over POTENTIAL and that Winston "coulda, shoulda, woulda" better. If he shows it and outright wins the starting job, he will have won it HANDS DOWN...but a short leash until about week 5 to see how he handles pressure situations and if can elevate to taking the team on his shoulders AND stopping knee jerk, perplexing decisions. I go by what I see and I have played, coached and trained a lot of high level football in my life working with and playing with CFL, NFL, AFL players and there are just certain things you can see and will gravitate to for evaluation. Can Winston succeed...YES, but he has a long "HILL" to climb over at this point. If he does...we ALL WIN and I will never root against him. BUT, I want the player who best gives us a chance to WIN and not LOSE games.

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