Taysom Hill's performance last night (and how it compares to Bridgewater's) (1 Viewer)

TCUDan

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Like everyone on here (it appears) I was extremely pleased with Taysom Hill's performance last night. And before we even get into the technical aspects, the first thing that always stands out about him when he's on the field is his mental/physical toughness and what a competitor he is. He brings those key intangibles to the table not just as a QB but as a football player.

From a coaching perspective, what I enjoyed seeing was the level of improvement his QB play has undergone since last year.
--He has really improved his pocket presence, his progressions, and his timing and ball placement down the field.
--He managed each drive very well and followed the old adage of 'taking what the defense gave him,' throwing away from the conflict defender and checking down when his progressions dictated.
--His placement on the wheel route to Austin Carr on the TD, for example, showed how he has matured as a passer, as the ball was delivered on time and placed properly vs. a cover 2 shell (he delivered a 2-ball to the hole between the flat defender and deep half player, whereas in the past I think he's still trying to touch that ball over the top to the back pylon in that situation).
--He is standing tall on the balls of his feet with his eyes down the field in his drop backs, and he is going through full-field progressions. And he has a really nice delivery.
--His improved pocket presence means that he is using his legs more as a weapon in his arsenal, rather than his primary method of making plays. This makes him exponentially more dangerous if and when he needs to play as an every down QB rather than a gadget player.

His performance was overwhelmingly positive, but as I think it is an emotional reaction to anoint him as the clear #2 QB over Bridgewater:
--From what I could see, Bridgewater appeared to be trusted with more command of the offense during his snaps than Hill. He was making more checks at the line, using more motions and shifts, and commanding a larger pie of the system.
--For example, I did not see Hill running any quick game or timing/spacing plays. This is a centerpiece of the Saints' offense. Along with the checks, audibles, and formationing (shifts and motions), this is what the Saints use to dictate tempo to a defense, establish a
rhythm, and open up the other aspects of their game.
--Every pass play that Hill ran was either play-action or true drop back. As I said, he performed very well on these plays, made good decisions, and I think only had 2 negative plays (the two sacks).
--But being an NFL QB for 60+ snaps a game requires a lot more. It is hard to quantify in percentages how much of the offense was actually used when Hill was in there (I am not only talking about play variation, but the level of freedom he was given presnap to make decisions and put the offense in the correct position), but it was clearly less than what Bridgewater was given.
--So while it appeared that Bridgewater played less efficiently or made more mistakes, he was asked to essentially run the offense as Brees runs it... as most starting NFL QBs run it. So I think it is a little premature to compare the play of the two QBs, especially once you factor in the nature of preseason football (the level of schematic challenge they are actually receiving from the opposing defense).


Personally speaking--strictly on an aesthetic level (if that phrase can be applied here lol)--I prefer Taysom Hill. I love his physical skills, his toughness, and I do expect more from Bridgewater at this point, given his QB pedigree... and he has a really funky release that I think leads to some bad ball placement. And I want to reiterate that Hill did EXACTLY what he was asked to do last night, and that is all a player can do. Pointing out these aforementioned differences is not a negative review of him, I give him a solid A for his performance last night whereas I would give Bridgewater a B-/C+.

However, as a coach, I can appreciate the fact that Taysom Hill is probably still a gadget player in the mind of the coaches. I am not saying he shouldn't be given the chance to be the heir to Brees... or even that he isn't being considered as such. But watching the 2 halves of the game last night, it was clear who was being asked to command more of the Saints' offense, and that was Bridgewater. And I am sure there is a reason for that.
 
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Bridgewater will always be, at best, a lesser version of Brees.

Taysom is something totally different. They can't be compared.

Post-Brees, I think we want something a little different. No one can live up to Brees.

And I think Peyton is intrigued with the challenge and versatility of Taysom versus just trying to find "the next Brees".

There is no "next Brees". Time to pivot.

(For what it's worth, I like Bridgewater and think he's an above average starter in the league.)
I agree. When we no longer have Brees, I'd like to see something different instead of a lessor version of Brees trying to run the same system that fit Brees. That's of course as long as it doesn't take a major overhaul of the rest of the offensive roster.

Here's the thing, the division has geared up to stop Brees and has been working for years at stopping Brees. They will have more success stopping a lesser version of Brees running the same offense.

Throw something and someone completely different at them, and it won't be so easy for them.
 

new city champ

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Hill as a future starting QB for the Saints can only be seriously considered if you add a big caveat: the entire offense would have to be retooled to fit his skill set, much in the way Payton has tailored the current offense to fit Brees.

If you’re asking if Hill can be molded into a traditional drop-back QB who hangs in the pocket and reads through multiple progressions while the defense closes in, I’d advise you to forget it. If your talking instead about an offense that features lots of bootlegs, roll outs, some RPO, then I’m intrigued.

Is Payton really willing to make that kind of change? Well, offensive guru Bill Walsh did, once upon a time going from an older, pocket-bound Joe Montana to a super dynamic Steve Young and had much success with both styles. I’d wager Payton would enjoy trying to match Walsh’s accomplishment. . .
 
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I really liked what I saw from Hill, and am willing to give Bridgewater a pass for his play due to his playing rather ill.

I will say this... if as one of the announcers stated is true, and Payton really feels like Taysom could be the next Steve Young, then you can believe that Hill will be given every opportunity to prove it here, and Payton will do everything he can to keep Hill in New Orleans moving forward until he gets his chance.

I am really pulling for Hill because I really enjoy the exciting brand of Football that he brings to the table.

Another thing that I am excited about is seeing TCUDan posting between seasons in his own coaching career. :9:
It's been said by a few announcers now and Payton hasn't corrected anyone, so I think it's likely true. What's intriguing to me is that Steve Young keeps saying that Hill entered the league as a better QB than he did and that he thinks Hill will be a better QB than he was.

I'm not counting on it, but it sure would be nice to see the Saints have their own and better version of Montana and Young. I think Brees is better than Montana. If Hill ends up better than Young, that would make up for suffering through all those years of the Saints playing second fiddle to the Montana and Young lead 49'ers.
 
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What you have to remember, and Hill eluded to it in a local interview a week or so ago, is he spends less than half his time in the QB meeting room. He’s in the special teams meetings, and joins the RBs and WRs in meetings also.
During the training camp I went to, he spent 45 min doing special teams drills while Brees and Teddy were throwing.
I believe he knows the playbook, but just hasn’t had the time to get all the reps, both mental and physical because he is spread so thin focusing on what his main job will be during the regular season, at least for this year.
My understanding is that he fully attends all of the position meetings, but only gets partial practice at each position. So he gets full mental prep, but only partial repetition prep. I remember Payton once saying that there are many players that could do that as successfully as Hill has.

Sean has held players back before, like Kamara and Graham. It's possible that Payton is both taking advantage of Hill's diverse talents while Brees is still playing and avoiding developing Hill to his full QB potential before Brees retires. I read a long time ago that Walsh used the threat of Young to push Montana and Montana hated it.

I think Payton may be taking the opposite approach.
 
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TCUDan

TCUDan

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What you have to remember, and Hill eluded to it in a local interview a week or so ago, is he spends less than half his time in the QB meeting room. He’s in the special teams meetings, and joins the RBs and WRs in meetings also.
During the training camp I went to, he spent 45 min doing special teams drills while Brees and Teddy were throwing.
I believe he knows the playbook, but just hasn’t had the time to get all the reps, both mental and physical because he is spread so thin focusing on what his main job will be during the regular season, at least for this year.
This is actually a really good point. If you're running a practice efficiently, that means no one is ever standing around. This typically means that the OL and the QB's get a lot more indy time than other positions as they are the 2 groups who do not play a lot of special teams.

Considering Hill plays a just about every special team, that's a lot of extra individual time he is missing.

Additionally, position meetings are usually held somewhere within the same allotment of time. So QBs, WRs, RBs, TEs, and OL will all meet separately from, for example, 9am-9:45. Then they will come together and meet as an offensive unit from 9:45-10:30.

It's not like the QBs are meeting at 7am, then coming back and meeting at 10am with the rest of the offense. Everyone has a work day that starts at a certain time. Perhaps the Saints stagger a little bit to accommodate Hill (I doubt it), but I bet he is putting in extra time to meet outside of regular meetings with Brees and Payton.

Out of curiosity I wonder how many Taysom specifice plays Payton has in his book of tricks.
He is used in a number of their base plays as an H-back and a WR. There are a few trick plays involving him, but I think it's really just about plugging him into their base plays.

So my question would be, how many different formations does he have for him, and how much does his play call ratio change whenever Hill is on the field?

If I was an opposing DC, that is what I would be studying.
 
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Additionally, position meetings are usually held somewhere within the same allotment of time. So QBs, WRs, RBs, TEs, and OL will all meet separately from, for example, 9am-9:45. Then they will come together and meet as an offensive unit from 9:45-10:30.

It's not like the QBs are meeting at 7am, then coming back and meeting at 10am with the rest of the offense. Everyone has a work day that starts at a certain time. Perhaps the Saints stagger a little bit to accommodate Hill (I doubt it), but I bet he is putting in extra time to meet outside of regular meetings with Brees and Payton.
Do they have ST meetings?
 

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I believe the offense by design is different when TH is in the game as QB. I don't believe the Saints spend too much time developing him to run the same offense as TB/DB. I am probably way off the mark but it looks like a different offense to me.
Anyway, I don't think that TH gets the focus and reps (just like any other QB3) with the offense. SP may see the potential for TH to be the second coming of Steve Young if the offense was designed around him. That's my uninformed thoughts.
 

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Hill has a strong arm, a very quick and compact release, good accuracy, and quick feet to build on. He needs to work on his pocket movement and situational awareness.

Teddy is a little better in the pocket, but he also needs to improve. Get rid of the ball already, Teddy! He also has a minor whipping motion in his release which is not ideal, but not a deal killer.

Teddy is not an ideal No1, but serviceable. Hill is not an ideal No2, but can be if he gets better in the pocket.

I still don't think Drew's replacement is in the building.
 
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TH is fun to watch @ times but I think there's a good chance that his 3rd preseason game performance from last season killed any chance that Payton would trust him as the #2. Which led to overpaying for TB. Maybe TH will get a chance to prove himself more worthy this wk but he's gonna have to leave 1 hell of an impression IMO

About Teddy, I was initially on his bandwagon n I still wouldn't be mad if he truly turns out to be Drew's successor but I'm beginning to lean more towards drafting new blood. Especially for the salary cap benefits. I'm personally hoping we can find a way to grab either Tua, Hebert or Fromm in the upcoming draft. All excel @ throwing an accurate pass which is what we've grown accustomed to with Drew
 

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Taysom Hill is a RFA after this season. It will be interesting to see what level of RFA Tender the Saints place on him. If he signs an extension, then the writing is on the wall that he will get a crack as the future starter at QB.
 

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Another aspect of preseason play that has not been mentioned is the fact that teams call plays during preseason that are designed to test a qbs range of ability and grasp of the playbook. In other words, they don't always call plays to emphasize a players strengths, but call plays to determine the limitation of their weaknesses. When I was training, coach would have me perform some plays to see how I or the team was progressing in different scenarios or things we or I were not good at. This should also be kept in the back of everyone's mind before they criticize a player.
 

Merl

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Taysom Hill is a RFA after this season. It will be interesting to see what level of RFA Tender the Saints place on him. If he signs an extension, then the writing is on the wall that he will get a crack as the future starter at QB.
From what I can see a 1st round tender next year would be just shy if $5,000,000, If another team is willing to commit to an offer sheet worth significantly more then you take their 2020 first round pick and draft the best QB available. If not, we get him for at least another year for gadget plays and special teams while continuing to see if he improves as a pure QB,
 

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Saw the same, offered up this perspective. If Pete Carmichael leaves after this year does he bring Taysom with him to a new team? I think Payton would prefer Bridewater because he fits the system to a T. Is capable of doing full reads or split reads where I think Taysom is still doing the half field reads, and as you mentioned Bridgewater has more command of the offense ie pre-snap adjustments.

Still Taysom is fun to watch and i was as pleased as you are with his game last night.
There is no doubt that Bridgewater is #2 and Hill #3 for the year.

But for the future, I can't agree with you that Payton would prefer Bridgewater over Hill.

Yes, Bridgewater will run the current system better, but Coach Payton realizes that there is only one Drew Brees, and Bridgewater will not be able to produce as well as Drew.

Hill, on the other side, provides other exciting options. He will demand modifications to the system or even a brand new system to build around him, but that is a re-birth that I have no doubts Coach Payton will find exciting to do.

The player that reminded me when I saw Hill playing last year was Cam Newton. Hill even had the tendency to throw high as Cam does. But things are changing. He will only get better in another year.

Right now, no doubt in my mind Teddy is # 2, but for the future, I think Hill may be a very interesting option, if Payton decides it is time to start from zero.
 

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