Taysom Hill's performance last night (and how it compares to Bridgewater's) (1 Viewer)

[Randy Jones]

Another aspect of preseason play that has not been mentioned is the fact that teams call plays during preseason that are designed to test a qbs range of ability and grasp of the playbook. In other words, they don't always call plays to emphasize a players strengths, but call plays to determine the limitation of their weaknesses. When I was training, coach would have me perform some plays to see how I or the team was progressing in different scenarios or things we or I were not good at. This should also be kept in the back of everyone's mind before they criticize a player.

 

[Merl]

Taysom Hill is a RFA after this season. It will be interesting to see what level of RFA Tender the Saints place on him. If he signs an extension, then the writing is on the wall that he will get a crack as the future starter at QB.

From what I can see a 1st round tender next year would be just shy if $5,000,000, If another team is willing to commit to an offer sheet worth significantly more then you take their 2020 first round pick and draft the best QB available. If not, we get him for at least another year for gadget plays and special teams while continuing to see if he improves as a pure QB,

 

[guillermo]

Saw the same, offered up this perspective. If Pete Carmichael leaves after this year does he bring Taysom with him to a new team? I think Payton would prefer Bridewater because he fits the system to a T. Is capable of doing full reads or split reads where I think Taysom is still doing the half field reads, and as you mentioned Bridgewater has more command of the offense ie pre-snap adjustments.

Still Taysom is fun to watch and i was as pleased as you are with his game last night.

There is no doubt that Bridgewater is #2 and Hill #3 for the year.

But for the future, I can't agree with you that Payton would prefer Bridgewater over Hill.

Yes, Bridgewater will run the current system better, but Coach Payton realizes that there is only one Drew Brees, and Bridgewater will not be able to produce as well as Drew.

Hill, on the other side, provides other exciting options. He will demand modifications to the system or even a brand new system to build around him, but that is a re-birth that I have no doubts Coach Payton will find exciting to do.

The player that reminded me when I saw Hill playing last year was Cam Newton. Hill even had the tendency to throw high as Cam does. But things are changing. He will only get better in another year.

Right now, no doubt in my mind Teddy is # 2, but for the future, I think Hill may be a very interesting option, if Payton decides it is time to start from zero.

 

[Crusader]

Thanks for the great write-up, TCU Dan.

 

[StudioSaint]

Yes, I told you in my post. Don’t believe me?

Wasn't doubting you, Just didn't remember you posted that when I replied to TCUDan.

 

[Goatman Saint]

Bridgewater is still probably going to be the next Saints starting QB. He can run the saints offense effectively.

But there is a small change Hill could be the next starter. He had no idea last year, other than tremendous physical talent. This offseason he has the basics of being a straight forward QB. He has developed. This season it will be interesting to see if as was said earlier can he pick up all the little things that makes a guy like Brees so deadly.

 

[GilFinnerty]

If the regular season started tomorrow and Drew Brees were unable to play, the far-and-away most likely scenario is that Bridgewater would be the starting QB and Hill would retain the same role he has when Drew Brees is the starter, with perhaps a few more snaps at QB than he has with Drew Brees in the game.

I could be wrong (maybe there is a quote from Hill somewhere contradicting what I am about to say), but I don't think he is unhappy with his role on the team. Maybe we as fans are projecting our desire that he take more snaps as a conventional QB because he is such an exciting player to watch with the ball in his hands, and we know that the time is coming when Drew Brees will hang up the pads.

But the fact of the matter is that Taysom Hill is getting a lot more snaps in his current role than he would as the "backup QB". Can he be both gadget player and #2 QB? Of course. But the notion that he's out the door if he doesn't get that I think is us projecting a bit. I have had a few QB's who were great all-around football players, guys who could just as easily take snaps at DE or WR as they could take snaps from center. There is always that desire in the back of their mind to just "play ball"... to run around and make tackles, catch passes, etc. It's fun for them, and in Taysom Hill I see a guy living the QB dream... someone who is having fun and who, to be quite honest, would not be seeing the field and may have never made it off of anyone's practice squad if he didn't have Sean Payton as a HC.

I have a really good feeling about his development at QB, like what I've seen, but the offense would need to be fundamentally changed if he became a full-time starter (which is not the end of the world at all). But in Bridgewater, I think the coaches see a guy who is more ready to plug into the current system, which is very demanding of the signal-caller. For now, I'll just continue to be excited about what Payton has cooked up every time #7 steps on the field.

Exactly my thoughts. With our current install Teddys skill set fits like a glove. Thats what you want as your #2. Some tweaks to offensive philosophy Hill has the potential to be special in my opinion. Special athlete with passing talent who gets to touch the ball every snap. Fun to think about. Same time Teddys a safe bet to give you starter quality snaps in our current west coast concepts.

 

[GilFinnerty]

One positive note that I forgot to mention is that he looks like he has adjusted his diet and workout regimen, and shed some of the bulk that he's carried the past couple of seasons. He is still big, strong, and explosive, but I thought he looked less stiff in his movement not just when scrambling or running, but when he climbed the pocket.

When you mentioned climbing the pocket. Whats your opinion on Teddys pocket movement. I noticed Teddy doesnt climb the pocket often. His footwork is pretty good in his drop back and he can plant that back foot to a good launching point. But when he plants and his read is not there. He tends to go backwards instead of climbing the pocket. Doesnt always do this but he does it more then he dont. Going off his Viking tape as well.

 

[TCUDan]

Do they have ST meetings?

Yes. I haven't coached in the NFL, but at the college level you will usually have Team/Special Teams meetings somewhat combined. So you start with a Special Teams meeting for X amount of time for install or film review or gameplan (depending on the day and phase of the season you're in). The rest of the team will fill in afterward for the Team meeting. Then you break into Unit and Positional meetings (or vise versa).

With ST meetings, he probably isn't missing much in terms of QB time. He just has a 45 minutes or an hour tacked onto his meeting schedule that the other QB's don't. ST periods in practice are what are going to affect him more when it comes to indy reps at QB.

I believe the offense by design is different when TH is in the game as QB. I don't believe the Saints spend too much time developing him to run the same offense as TB/DB. I am probably way off the mark but it looks like a different offense to me.
Anyway, I don't think that TH gets the focus and reps (just like any other QB3) with the offense. SP may see the potential for TH to be the second coming of Steve Young if the offense was designed around him. That's my uninformed thoughts.

If you mean that the play calling is different, I would agree. But these are still base plays in the Saints system that are packaged together for Taysom Hill. The same way you would package plays for a guy like Reggie Bush, only now that gadget player is your QB. You aren't installing specific plays for them, you're just calling specific plays.

The upside to package players is that it spreads the opposing defense thin during the week as they have to dedicate certain periods to This is what we do when #7 is lined up at QB and This is what we do when #7 is lined up at H-Back. The downside to a package-specific player is it limits an OC's playcalling options when they are on the field and creates tendencies for the opposing defense to key in on.

More importantly, if Taysom Hill ultimately becomes Drew Brees successor, the offense will have to be changed. And what I mean is the foundation of it. 10-15 years ago, Taysom Hill would not be seen as a viable QB in the NFL. But the league has since embraced more college-style systems (spread option/RPO), and you would see the Saints offense more closely resembling Carolina's or Seattle's rather than the West Coast 'light-em-up and spread the ball around' style with Drew Brees.

 

[TCUDan]

When you mentioned climbing the pocket. Whats your opinion on Teddys pocket movement. I noticed Teddy doesnt climb the pocket often. His footwork is pretty good in his drop back and he can plant that back foot to a good launching point. But when he plants and his read is not there. He tends to go backwards instead of climbing the pocket. Doesnt always do this but he does it more then he dont. Going off his Viking tape as well.

Honestly, I think he looks a little uncomfortable. Perhaps it's a hangover from his injuries (lower leg injuries will do that to you) or the illness, but I think a stark contest between him and Brees is how comfortable Brees is moving off his spot, finding windows and delivering the ball. I think Bridgewater knows where to go and how to escape, but his timing looks off. He will be a little late to climb or slide or will over extend and push himself into some clutter. His accuracy definitely looked affected by it last game, and I think that's a combination of not resetting his feet properly and his low snappy release (especially when he's on the move).

Pocket presence is difficult and teaching it is a lot like teaching "vision" to a RB (how to read and set up blocks). The instincts have to be there, but so does the confidence and comfort. I actually think pocket presence is very natural for Hill because of his instincts and experience running the ball. And what impresses me is not only his knack for timing and direction as he navigates the pocket, but--and going back to what I was saying about Bridgewater--how well Hill resets his feet when forced to move off his spot.

I would have to go back and watch the Vikings game again, but in the Chargers game Bridgewater looked very rushed to me.

 

[bobad]

Honestly, I think he looks a little uncomfortable. ... I think Bridgewater knows where to go and how to escape, but his timing looks off. He will be a little late to climb or slide or will over extend and push himself into some clutter. His accuracy definitely looked affected by it last game, and I think that's a combination of not resetting his feet properly and his low snappy release (especially when he's on the move).

I have Teddy well ahead of Hill, but if both of them play in the next game like in the Chargers game, Hill creeps up on him a bit. Hitting 9 consecutive passes in any NFL scenario is not trivial.

Hill shouldn't be underestimated. He's a force of nature, and I'm not only talking about physically. Payton poached him from GB just as much for his mentality as for his physicality. I think Hill loves football, and will spend his life in it.

 

[los226]

TCUdan you are one of the best contributors to this board and I learn so much from your analysis. Thanks for posting and I’m glad that you’re back!

 

[TCUDan]

I have Teddy well ahead of Hill, but if both of them play in the next game like in the Chargers game, Hill creeps up on him a bit. Hitting 9 consecutive passes in any NFL scenario is not trivial.

I like to compare playing QB to playing point guard in basketball. There is a certain level of 'feel' to it... you can call it really good peripheral vision, anticipation, reaction time/reflexes... it's really the right combination of all of the above. My best QB's I've coached are guys who at some point in their athletic lives had been point guards in basketball.

Completing 9 passes in a row is about as easy as hitting 9 jump shots in a row. It shows that just like Brees, once Hill becomes comfortable, his confidence grows and he can be really hard to slow down.

 

[Doublemove]

Yes. I haven't coached in the NFL, but at the college level you will usually have Team/Special Teams meetings somewhat combined. So you start with a Special Teams meeting for X amount of time for install or film review or gameplan (depending on the day and phase of the season you're in). The rest of the team will fill in afterward for the Team meeting. Then you break into Unit and Positional meetings (or vise versa).

With ST meetings, he probably isn't missing much in terms of QB time. He just has a 45 minutes or an hour tacked onto his meeting schedule that the other QB's don't. ST periods in practice are what are going to affect him more when it comes to indy reps at QB.



If you mean that the play calling is different, I would agree. But these are still base plays in the Saints system that are packaged together for Taysom Hill. The same way you would package plays for a guy like Reggie Bush, only now that gadget player is your QB. You aren't installing specific plays for them, you're just calling specific plays.

The upside to package players is that it spreads the opposing defense thin during the week as they have to dedicate certain periods to This is what we do when #7 is lined up at QB and This is what we do when #7 is lined up at H-Back. The downside to a package-specific player is it limits an OC's playcalling options when they are on the field and creates tendencies for the opposing defense to key in on.

More importantly, if Taysom Hill ultimately becomes Drew Brees successor, the offense will have to be changed. And what I mean is the foundation of it. 10-15 years ago, Taysom Hill would not be seen as a viable QB in the NFL. But the league has since embraced more college-style systems (spread option/RPO), and you would see the Saints offense more closely resembling Carolina's or Seattle's rather than the West Coast 'light-em-up and spread the ball around' style with Drew Brees.

Yes, the play calling.

 

[Spylake]

He had no idea last year, other than tremendous physical talent.

There is a bit of history rewriting going on in the forums. Don't forget it was Payton that was impressed with his 2017 Packers preseason at QB. He was acquired as a QB and it wasn't until late in the season that they discovered his do everything ability.

If he was the stumble bum overwhelmed by an NFL offense scheme like the revisionists try and claim I doubt Payton would have given him a second glance.

Go read the Packer forums and see all the remorse that they let him get away when Rogers got injured.

The Teddy Boosters are overselling this difference between them. They want to blame Taysom for running when he sees a high percentage first down gain. The rest of us see smart. Games are won with first downs.