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David Robbins

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I miss your instruction. I have never really played much football so I get confused on some terms. What is 21 personnel and other personnel concepts. Routes. What is a rub route and a dig route and so forth. On defense you have 2 lb's compared to 3. Can you please clear these things up for me. Give me the football lessons I never got. Thanks bro.
 

JvilleJoe

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I always looked forward to his insights and learned something new everytime he posted. I hope he is doing well coaching in Europe or whatever he is currently doing. Class act in every way!
 
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David Robbins

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Well I guess this is why he never posts any longer. Man, I always loved his posts. Guess it's hard to be a saints fan when you're a head coach of a team. Man, with his resume he should be hired at least in college football. Not to mention the NFL
 

Dan in Lafayette

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Dan still finds time to watch the Saints. Just about a year ago, shortly after accepting the job in Florence, he came on here and gave a detailed analysis of the Saints. It was a very good read. He was last on the site in September of this year but did not post.
 
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David Robbins

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Dan still finds time to watch the Saints. Just about a year ago, shortly after accepting the job in Florence, he came on here and gave a detailed analysis of the Saints. It was a very good read. He was last on the site in September of this year but did not post.
If you still talk to him tell him I'm pulling for him. I really miss his posts.
 

TCUDan

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Hey guys, I'm around. Been lurking from time to time lately, always happy to answer questions.

21 Personnel = 2 backs, 1 TE. Also called "pro set" if you want to use oldschool verbiage.

Personnel groupings are 1st number = RBs, 2nd number = TEs.

10 Personnel = 1 back, 0 TEs (4 WR set)
11 Personnel = 1RB, 1 TE (3 WR set)
and it goes on from there 12, 13, 20, 21, 22, etc.

I'll look back at some of the other questions and try to answer.


I miss your instruction. I have never really played much football so I get confused on some terms. What is 21 personnel and other personnel concepts. Routes. What is a rub route and a dig route and so forth. On defense you have 2 lb's compared to 3. Can you please clear these things up for me. Give me the football lessons I never got. Thanks bro.
 

TCUDan

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The number of LBs on the field is usually about personnel matchups. So if you're a base 4-3 defense (4 DL, 3 LBs) but the other team is coming out in 11 or 10 personnel, you'll usually go to a nickel set (take a LB or DL off the field) to match up with the speed of their personnel.

Same goes for down/distance (3rd and long vs 3rd and short).
 

TCUDan

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Gaps count from the center outward, mirrored in both directions.

A gap = betw C & G
B gap = betw G & T
C gap = betw T & TE (or off tackle if there is no TE)
D gap = alley
E gap = wide

Coaches rarely say "D gap" or "E gap"... we'll say "alley" or "wide/numbers/sideline" etc.

same boat as you. like i hear a gap, b gap and stuff. im not quite sure what that all means.
 

TCUDan

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Worst interview hahaha. Roger called me on the phone and we shot the sheet for an hour and then he type it all up from memory and misquoted me on a few things.

Italian league was canceled this year. I'm fielding offers for next season, but have focused more on writing during the pandemic and also did some virtual clinics (spoke at the LHSCA convention) and consulted with some teams in different countries that did play this season.

Actually enjoyed the year off from the stress of being a HC.

TCUDan has been coaching internationally for many years now. I have tried to keep up with his career. The latest I have on him is he was signed as the head coach for Firenze Guelfi in Italy.

Below is a link to an article from October of last year with an interview with Dan. He has quite the resume'. I don't know if the league was active this year or not. Maybe our European members can help out on that.

1605724158091.png

 

RevDeuceWindham

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Gaps count from the center outward, mirrored in both directions.

A gap = betw C & G
B gap = betw G & T
C gap = betw T & TE (or off tackle if there is no TE)
D gap = alley
E gap = wide

Coaches rarely say "D gap" or "E gap"... we'll say "alley" or "wide/numbers/sideline" etc.
Good to see you around!
 

TCUDan

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Man. I didn't know he was a coach. Why isn't he in the NFL or even college. He's so knowledgeable.
I was briefly a college OC but honestly, I love traveling and have been able to have a pretty successful overseas career. I love it. The coaching lifestyle (college and pro) is a serious life commitment, and I think it gets lost on people the amount of personal sacrifice it requires. I figured out pretty quickly that that wasn't the direction for me.
 

TCUDan

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As far as route trees, those kind of depend on the system/coach and can vary. There is the classic route tree which I think has been shown on here. And they can also vary whether you're talking about a perimeter WR, a slot, a TE/H-back, a RB, etc.

With the prevalence of spread offenses, a lot of coaches/coordinators bypass route trees and focus more on concepts. I teach everything in concepts... so you're talking about Curl/flat, Post/dig, slant/arrow, Snag, Stick, etc. The only times you'll have those isolated routes is on with your backside X in a 3x1 or 2x1 formation, where the coach or the QB can tag it.

Those routes adhere more to a traditional route tree. Everything else is concepts.
 

RevDeuceWindham

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Thanks brother, good to see you too. And everyone else. I'll try to get on here more, especially if I get tagged to answer some questions.
Appreciated your response about the difficulty of the life of a coach. It's the reason I opted to not pursue scouting as a full time job but instead look into sports journalism. What a lot of these men and women dedicate in terms of time in a single season is more than most realize. You'll have field scouts out of town 150+ days of the year sometimes doing 10-12 hour days. It's a heck of a grind to get into this sport.

With the prevalence of spread offenses, a lot of coaches/coordinators bypass route trees and focus more on concepts. I teach everything in concepts... so you're talking about Curl/flat, Post/dig, slant/arrow, Snag, Stick, etc. The only times you'll have those isolated routes is on with your backside X in a 3x1 or 2x1 formation, where the coach or the QB can tag it.

Those routes adhere more to a traditional route tree. Everything else is concepts.
Also really love this post. While concepts are made up of the basic route tree, it varies. Ex: you run 4 verts differently from 3x1 vs 2x2 but it's still 4 verticals. (Your inside Flex/WR will essentially run a post route as his landmark of the hash stays the same no matter what side of the field he's on). When teams are making playcalls they're calling out concepts.

Game is complicated!
 

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Worst interview hahaha. Roger called me on the phone and we shot the sheet for an hour and then he type it all up from memory and misquoted me on a few things.

Italian league was canceled this year. I'm fielding offers for next season, but have focused more on writing during the pandemic and also did some virtual clinics (spoke at the LHSCA convention) and consulted with some teams in different countries that did play this season.

Actually enjoyed the year off from the stress of being a HC.
Good to hear from you
Yeah, I assumed y’all would be shut down this season
Also, reading SP’s book talking about time commitment coaching has - it’s crazy
 

TCUDan

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This is a good one (just saw it).

So obviously different coaches have different systems, but at the NFL level, you'll literally have a coach responsible for offensive personnel groupings. So usually before the current play is over, the play caller (in this case Payton) will have a the next personnel grouping on deck. Now this may change if say, there's a 5 yard loss on 2nd down and he cancels and sends in a new grouping.

So an example of a personnel grouping would be "20 personnel Kamara, Harris Y" so he's going with 2 backs, 3 WRs with Harris at the Y. Usually the RB coach will be responsible for making sure the RBs are rotated properly and the WR coach for the WRs

At the NFL level, you have so many assistant coaches and assistants to the assistant coaches that you can work with all the added moving parts.

At the college level (and the way I always operate) is you have packages. So let's say I want to get in my taller WRs in the red zone, I'll call out "shaq". "20 personnel Juice" may be getting my 2 quick RBs on the field. "20 personnel Truck" is to get a power H-back out there.

And anytime I go 10 personnel, I call the RB by name.

How do you do it without screwing it up? Practice, practice, practice. When you plan practice periods, you will operate gametime scenarios. So if we're in 2 minute or 4 minute or open downs or red zone, you have it scripted which personnel sets you want to work in, and you have someone running the play clock. That way your players and coaches get used to it.



I'd love to know how they get the personnel groupings in, and on time.

How many must there be? And every player knows which of all those he is/is not a part of... And be within earshot of CSP or whomever is making the call (for instance if the WR coach gets it from Sean and passes it along).

And they manage to do that in time to huddle, and get it right 99.9% if the time.

It boggles my mind.
 

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