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David Robbins

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I miss your instruction. I have never really played much football so I get confused on some terms. What is 21 personnel and other personnel concepts. Routes. What is a rub route and a dig route and so forth. On defense you have 2 lb's compared to 3. Can you please clear these things up for me. Give me the football lessons I never got. Thanks bro.
 

TCUDan

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Exactly. Landmarks and spacing are the name of the game, especially with the amount of zone coverage teams play these days.

When I was in high school and we were doing a lot of I-formation, the calls would "696 Drag". 600s protection, X running a 9, Z running a 6, TE running a drag.

Route trees are far more useful for that.

Now when you're teaching routes, it matters what the concept is. The way I teach my guys to run an outside slant vs cover 3 on a 'double slant' concept vs on a 'slant arrow' concept is different. They have to understand the concept and how it affects the kinetics of the defense, not just the way their routes are drawn on paper.

Appreciated your response about the difficulty of the life of a coach. It's the reason I opted to not pursue scouting as a full time job but instead look into sports journalism. What a lot of these men and women dedicate in terms of time in a single season is more than most realize. You'll have field scouts out of town 150+ days of the year sometimes doing 10-12 hour days. It's a heck of a grind to get into this sport.



Also really love this post. While concepts are made up of the basic route tree, it varies. Ex: you run 4 verts differently from 3x1 vs 2x2 but it's still 4 verticals. (Your inside Flex/WR will essentially run a post route as his landmark of the hash stays the same no matter what side of the field he's on). When teams are making playcalls they're calling out concepts.

Game is complicated!
 

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Exactly. Landmarks and spacing are the name of the game, especially with the amount of zone coverage teams play these days.

When I was in high school and we were doing a lot of I-formation, the calls would "696 Drag". 600s protection, X running a 9, Z running a 6, TE running a drag.

Route trees are far more useful for that.

Now when you're teaching routes, it matters what the concept is. The way I teach my guys to run an outside slant vs cover 3 on a 'double slant' concept vs on a 'slant arrow' concept is different. They have to understand the concept and how it affects the kinetics of the defense, not just the way their routes are drawn on paper.
Just wanted to give a visual to everyone for some of the things you were saying in current west coast terminology and playcalling. I love football and will talk shop all day lol. This is from the Saints 2015 playbook (LMK if you want me to send it over coach). Snag concept ( Snag is a 1/2 field (meaning 1 side) triangle (routes form a triangle pattern) read that can be set up to beat man or zone coverage.) The X Bullet is just a quick slant vs normal depth slant based on cov. You've got a pivot route so the Z receiver has to diagnose man vs zone and the fullback is your hot route underneath.

A lot different than when I was in high school learning plays like you're talking about haha.

2015.JPG
 

TCUDan

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I'd love to get that playbook!

Here's my base snag concept from my own playbook out of 10 personnel, base 2x2 & 3x1. And it illustrates what we're talking about with spacing and landmarks.

Both plays have 1 - sit, 2 - corner, 3 - flat... creating the triangle that you were alluding to... but because of alignment, getting to those landmarks changes (especially that #1 WR). So instead of teaching a "sit route" by telling the #1 WR how to run, we teach where we want him to be. In this case, I teach "toes of the alley player". And that landmark changes as the alley player (overhang, flat defender... whatever you want to call him) is put in conflict.

If he quickly buzzes to defend the flat route, that sit route is gonna SIT right there in the space he vacated.

If the alley player sits in the alley/hesitates, we're gonna attack his depth, sit, push off his hip and pivot back out into space (but not into the flat).

That Corner route is only getting thrown vs. C2 or man if we have a matchup.

But I think this is a great illustration of how the same play can be run from different formations.

Just wanted to give a visual to everyone for some of the things you were saying in current west coast terminology and playcalling. I love football and will talk shop all day lol. This is from the Saints 2015 playbook (LMK if you want me to send it over coach). Snag concept ( Snag is a 1/2 field (meaning 1 side) triangle (routes form a triangle pattern) read that can be set up to beat man or zone coverage.) The X Bullet is just a quick slant vs normal depth slant based on cov. You've got a pivot route so the Z receiver has to diagnose man vs zone and the fullback is your hot route underneath.

A lot different than when I was in high school learning plays like you're talking about haha.

2015.JPG
 

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TribuneUK

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As far as concepts go, I got to hear Hal Mumme talk about Mesh and that was really eye opening in terms of how concepts can work.

Also remember setting up a clinic where I saw a receiver coach enlightening some players about the importance of adjusting your route to the coverage for the first time. A lot of light bulbs went on in that room.

Not sure if you've stayed near Florence out of season, but my wife and I love it there. We got engaged on our first trip and then revisited as part of our honeymoon.
 

TCUDan

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As far as concepts go, I got to hear Hal Mumme talk about Mesh and that was really eye opening in terms of how concepts can work.

Also remember setting up a clinic where I saw a receiver coach enlightening some players about the importance of adjusting your route to the coverage for the first time. A lot of light bulbs went on in that room.

Not sure if you've stayed near Florence out of season, but my wife and I love it there. We got engaged on our first trip and then revisited as part of our honeymoon.
Did Mumme talk about how he ran Mesh 56 times in one game? :)

My fiancee and I are back in Prague, and will likely move to Germany in the spring once the COVID situation starts to become a little clearer. I love Florence too and was excited to move there, but I have no complaints about being in Prague, either.
 

RevDeuceWindham

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As far as concepts go, I got to hear Hal Mumme talk about Mesh and that was really eye opening in terms of how concepts can work.

Also remember setting up a clinic where I saw a receiver coach enlightening some players about the importance of adjusting your route to the coverage for the first time. A lot of light bulbs went on in that room.

Not sure if you've stayed near Florence out of season, but my wife and I love it there. We got engaged on our first trip and then revisited as part of our honeymoon.
Mesh is one of my favorite concepts and the Saints use it all the time. it will destroy defenses in man coverage as it's a natural rub route, and it can be very effective at the end of a progression vs zone as it starts to stress the edges of the field/top of short zone.

But as Dan continues to point out spacing and understanding are key. You can also make slight adjustments, like vs zone, have the top of the mesh carry his route 5-10 yards higher to get above the zone and find holes. So much you can do offensively.

mesh.JPG
 

TribuneUK

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Did Mumme talk about how he ran Mesh 56 times in one game? :)

My fiancee and I are back in Prague, and will likely move to Germany in the spring once the COVID situation starts to become a little clearer. I love Florence too and was excited to move there, but I have no complaints about being in Prague, either.
Of course he did. I also love how he needs a coffee and some game tape to get a talk started, everyone has their happy place.

We'd like to go back to Florence but it will obviously be post-Covid as well as when our son is a little older. I'm sure Prague has its delights as well
 

TCUDan

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Mesh is one of my favorite concepts and the Saints use it all the time. it will destroy defenses in man coverage as it's a natural rub route, and it can be very effective at the end of a progression vs zone as it starts to stress the edges of the field/top of short zone.

But as Dan continues to point out spacing and understanding are key. You can also make slight adjustments, like vs zone, have the top of the mesh carry his route 5-10 yards higher to get above the zone and find holes. So much you can do offensively.

mesh.JPG
And sticking with the snag concept theme, we're talking mostly about 3 man snag, but one of my favorite backside tags in 3x1 is 2 man snag between the X and the RB.

On the occasion where Kamara isn't running that backside choice route paired with the shake-corner, we have seen him run 2-man snag (in fact, either last game or the game before... I'll find the clip). When you catch the defense in man, that sit route becomes a rub and frees the RB on a wheel route up the sidelines. It's a back-breaker.
 

TCUDan

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2 man snag at 7:25. Thomas's split is pretty reduced and the LB bubbles over the rub, but it still creates enough space for Kamara on the wheel.

Love that play. Absolutely killed a team in a playoff game who liked to bring backside pressure vs. 3x1. It was about 1/3 of our base gameplan during the week (fitting 2 man snag in backside) and we probably ended up tagging it on over 40% of pass plays.

 

Dan in Lafayette

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Thanks for popping in, Dan. Congrats on your engagement. st dude will be glad that you finally picked a girl that you plan on staying with. :grin:
 
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David Robbins

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I'd love to get that playbook!

Here's my base snag concept from my own playbook out of 10 personnel, base 2x2 & 3x1. And it illustrates what we're talking about with spacing and landmarks.

Both plays have 1 - sit, 2 - corner, 3 - flat... creating the triangle that you were alluding to... but because of alignment, getting to those landmarks changes (especially that #1 WR). So instead of teaching a "sit route" by telling the #1 WR how to run, we teach where we want him to be. In this case, I teach "toes of the alley player". And that landmark changes as the alley player (overhang, flat defender... whatever you want to call him) is put in conflict.

If he quickly buzzes to defend the flat route, that sit route is gonna SIT right there in the space he vacated.

If the alley player sits in the alley/hesitates, we're gonna attack his depth, sit, push off his hip and pivot back out into space (but not into the flat).

That Corner route is only getting thrown vs. C2 or man if we have a matchup.

But I think this is a great illustration of how the same play can be run from different formations.
I guess this is why sometimes wrs take so long to develop. Lol
 

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I guess this is why sometimes wrs take so long to develop. Lol
Yup! Not only do receivers have to learn concepts and spacing, but they also have to learn techniques to win matchups. Examples: (Gonna throw a lot of football terms out there to make a point) Dino stems, stair-step technique, pressure step, Jerk step (different than dino stem, but similar idea), Blind spot (working the DB's blind spot), Speedcuts, Bam step, stutter, and there are a ton more a more a coach like Dan could name.

Moves you'll used are based on the types of coverages (and leverage) you'll be faced with. Great receivers tend to be intelligent receivers and not just athletic phenoms.
 

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