TCU Dan (2 Viewers)

David Robbins

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I miss your instruction. I have never really played much football so I get confused on some terms. What is 21 personnel and other personnel concepts. Routes. What is a rub route and a dig route and so forth. On defense you have 2 lb's compared to 3. Can you please clear these things up for me. Give me the football lessons I never got. Thanks bro.
 

TCUDan

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Yup! Not only do receivers have to learn concepts and spacing, but they also have to learn techniques to win matchups. Examples: (Gonna throw a lot of football terms out there to make a point) Dino stems, stair-step technique, pressure step, Jerk step (different than dino stem, but similar idea), Blind spot (working the DB's blind spot), Speedcuts, Bam step, stutter, and there are a ton more a more a coach like Dan could name.

Moves you'll used are based on the types of coverages (and leverage) you'll be faced with. Great receivers tend to be intelligent receivers and not just athletic phenoms.
Yea the release and route-running fundamentals are huge, and knowing how and when to deploy the proper techniques situationally. And then that's not even going into how much more meticulously they need to learn and understand defenses. You don't run a post route the same vs. C2 as you do vs. C3. And in the NFL, coverages get stemmed a lot more so it's not them just looking at the safeties presnap and saying "is the middle of the field open or closed". They have to see the stem, see the rotation, and adjust to it while executing and winning on their release, leverage, route stem, landmark depth, coming clean in and out of their break, working to space, etc.

The level of multi-tasking between college and the NFL is a huge leap because you're no longer as dominant an athlete as you were in college. So now details matter. WR (and every position) becomes a lot more cerebral once you make the jump.
 

TCUDan

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Michael Thomas is a great example of a WR who, at least mentally, could play defense. He understands defensive movement. If his CB's hips are turned inside vs outside, where his leverage is, and how that ties into the movement of the other 6 coverage defenders on the field. It's why he runs consistently great routes, always works to space, and can anticipate WHERE the ball is going to be placed (which is why his catch-to-target ratio is so high). Everyone talks about WRs "having great hands." 90% of that is being able to anticipate ball placement.
 

RevDeuceWindham

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Yea the release and route-running fundamentals are huge, and knowing how and when to deploy the proper techniques situationally. And then that's not even going into how much more meticulously they need to learn and understand defenses. You don't run a post route the same vs. C2 as you do vs. C3. And in the NFL, coverages get stemmed a lot more so it's not them just looking at the safeties presnap and saying "is the middle of the field open or closed". They have to see the stem, see the rotation, and adjust to it while executing and winning on their release, leverage, route stem, landmark depth, coming clean in and out of their break, working to space, etc.

The level of multi-tasking between college and the NFL is a huge leap because you're no longer as dominant an athlete as you were in college. So now details matter. WR (and every position) becomes a lot more cerebral once you make the jump.
With the growing trend of match defenses the past 20 years now players are having to study tendencies of defenses because pre & post snap looks of coverages can vary so wildly. You got WRs/WR rooms studying analytics now lol.
 

Saint Spud

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This is a great thread.

What would you guys expect to see with Taysom out there? I'd imagine he will see a lot of zone until he proves he can find the holes.
 

TCUDan

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This is a great thread.

What would you guys expect to see with Taysom out there? I'd imagine he will see a lot of zone until he proves he can find the holes.
Personally, I'd expect to see a little more out of the RPO game. Either box count RPOs or inside/outside zone, reading a conflict defender on the perimeter. Some play action from under center, maybe a little more sprint-out game.

What I hope they don't entirely get away from is the QB power that they've really implemented recently (11-man run game, usually motioning in the fullback and running a power concept with Taysom). It's hands down one of my favorite concepts in my own offense and there's a lot of ways you can dress it up and marry RPOs to it.

But now that Taysom is allegedly gonna be the guy, they may not want him taking those hits.
 

DaveXA

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This is a great thread.

What would you guys expect to see with Taysom out there? I'd imagine he will see a lot of zone until he proves he can find the holes.
Yeah, also wondering if they need to adjust playcalling to fit his skill set. Does someone else fill the joker role for Taysom? Maybe Harris? He's a bit smaller, but the speed and shiftiness seems like it would be a good fit.
 

Saint Spud

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Personally, I'd expect to see a little more out of the RPO game. Either box count RPOs or zone, reading a conflict defender on the perimeter. Some play action from under center, maybe a little more sprint-out game.

What I hope they don't entirely get away from is the QB power that they've really implemented recently (11-man run game, usually motioning in the fullback and running a power concept with Taysom). It's hands down one of my favorite concepts in my own offense and there's a lot of ways you can dress it up and marry RPOs to it.

But now that Taysom is allegedly gonna be the guy, they may not want him taking those hits.
Yeah, that would be my concern: Taking away the one thing that makes him dynamic.

I'm not sure how much pure RPO they've done. But clearly that would be the place he'd shine if he properly executed it.
 

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Yeah, that would be my concern: Taking away the one thing that makes him dynamic.

I'm not sure how much pure RPO they've done. But clearly that would be the place he'd shine if he properly executed it.
They do a lot of simple presnap stuff. Anytime you see them giving the ball out of shotgun and the QB following throw with a ghost throw after the handoff, that's usually an RPO (they're just giving it).

They also do presnap stuff, under center, where they'll have 21 or 20 personnel run called and sometimes Drew will take a quick set and hit Michael Thomas on a slant if they get the one on one they like or a vacated alley. What I'd expect to see is more college style RPO out of the gun.
 

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Yeah, that would be my concern: Taking away the one thing that makes him dynamic.

I'm not sure how much pure RPO they've done. But clearly that would be the place he'd shine if he properly executed it.
Seems to me they probably haven't used it enough to justify using it throughout a full game. It's tough because you don't want TH to take too many hits. He's gonna have to use his arm a fair amount. I'm actually concerned Payton may now try to avoid that QB power concept becuase they need to protect the QB more with Drew out. I dunno. Be interesting to see what direction Payton goes.
 

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They do a lot of simple presnap stuff. Anytime you see them giving the ball out of shotgun and the QB following throw with a ghost throw after the handoff, that's usually an RPO (they're just giving it).

They also do presnap stuff, under center, where they'll have 21 or 20 personnel run called and sometimes Drew will take a quick set and hit Michael Thomas on a slant if they get the one on one they like or a vacated alley. What I'd expect to see is more college style RPO out of the gun.
Yeah, sorry, I meant with Taysom specifically I hadn't seen it much. Most of the plays I could remember seemed to be pre-designed with RPO action as more of window dressing.

I could be way off on that, though.
 

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Yeah, also wondering if they need to adjust playcalling to fit his skill set. Does someone else fill the joker role for Taysom? Maybe Harris? He's a bit smaller, but the speed and shiftiness seems like it would be a good fit.
I think the "joker" role itself is overblown. It's a Taysom Hill role to get him on the field. Harris has a unique role which you could call a 'joker' (anyone who is lining up and motioning to different areas who you're getting the ball to in different ways can be consider a joker in the general sense of term).

So I don't see them trying to replace Hill's specific role because you can't. But you still have plenty of versatile weapons, so you aren't actually losing that much because, again, Hill will be on the field.
 

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Seems to me they probably haven't used it enough to justify using it throughout a full game. It's tough because you don't want TH to take too many hits. He's gonna have to use his arm a fair amount. I'm actually concerned Payton may now try to avoid that QB power concept becuase they need to protect the QB more with Drew out. I dunno. Be interesting to see what direction Payton goes.
Yea when you have Drew on the field there's less of a need to RPO because he audibles constantly. Rarely does he go into the huddle with just one play called (that's why the play calls sound like an essay).

RPO is kind of something that developed in college and high school ball to have built in options and not force the QB audible as much. That's not it's only use, but it is a thing. And when you have someone like Drew who can quickly get in and out of plays at the line, there's less of a need to open up the RPOs.

RevDeuce also told me earlier that Kamara isn't comfortable with the RPO game, which is strange, but it could be a factor. In which case you could see them running them more with Murray at RB and having Kamara as a perimeter pass option.
 

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This a great one. Though TBH I'm a defensive guy having played cornerback in high school. But even basic coverage concepts were daunting to me because I couldn't visualize it. Now having looked at those coverages on paper they make much more sense.

At the time(and again this was simplistic high school coverages), my knowledge for my position (CB) went no further than cover 0 or man coverage and opening my hips toward the sideline(if boundary corner) to maintain inside leverage forcing them to the boundary and limiting their routes to the inside. Then other coverages opening my hips to the inside keeping an eye on my man and on the QB to watch for any throws into my zone. Thing was I didn't know my zone. Needless to say I was never a starter but jeez had I had these coverages laid out like the offensive schemes are laid out here I probably would have understood it better. Oh and I can't forget my favorite defensive call - Chicago: Corner blitz lmao.
 

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Yea when you have Drew on the field there's less of a need to RPO because he audibles constantly. Rarely does he go into the huddle with just one play called (that's why the play calls sound like an essay).

RPO is kind of something that developed in college and high school ball to have built in options and not force the QB audible as much. That's not it's only use, but it is a thing. And when you have someone like Drew who can quickly get in and out of plays at the line, there's less of a need to open up the RPOs.

RevDeuce also told me earlier that Kamara isn't comfortable with the RPO game, which is strange, but it could be a factor. In which case you could see them running them more with Murray at RB and having Kamara as a perimeter pass option.
Tbh, I like Murray in the backfield and Kamara in that perimeter passing role. That just gives the offense more options, but then you'd have to be rotating them. I don't know if the rb depth behind them can support doing that much of the game. But maybe use it in 2nd or 3rd and short situations.
 

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