TCU Dan (1 Viewer)

Yeah, also wondering if they need to adjust playcalling to fit his skill set. Does someone else fill the joker role for Taysom? Maybe Harris? He's a bit smaller, but the speed and shiftiness seems like it would be a good fit.

I think the "joker" role itself is overblown. It's a Taysom Hill role to get him on the field. Harris has a unique role which you could call a 'joker' (anyone who is lining up and motioning to different areas who you're getting the ball to in different ways can be consider a joker in the general sense of term).

So I don't see them trying to replace Hill's specific role because you can't. But you still have plenty of versatile weapons, so you aren't actually losing that much because, again, Hill will be on the field.
 
Seems to me they probably haven't used it enough to justify using it throughout a full game. It's tough because you don't want TH to take too many hits. He's gonna have to use his arm a fair amount. I'm actually concerned Payton may now try to avoid that QB power concept becuase they need to protect the QB more with Drew out. I dunno. Be interesting to see what direction Payton goes.

Yea when you have Drew on the field there's less of a need to RPO because he audibles constantly. Rarely does he go into the huddle with just one play called (that's why the play calls sound like an essay).

RPO is kind of something that developed in college and high school ball to have built in options and not force the QB audible as much. That's not it's only use, but it is a thing. And when you have someone like Drew who can quickly get in and out of plays at the line, there's less of a need to open up the RPOs.

RevDeuce also told me earlier that Kamara isn't comfortable with the RPO game, which is strange, but it could be a factor. In which case you could see them running them more with Murray at RB and having Kamara as a perimeter pass option.
 
This a great one. Though TBH I'm a defensive guy having played cornerback in high school. But even basic coverage concepts were daunting to me because I couldn't visualize it. Now having looked at those coverages on paper they make much more sense.

At the time(and again this was simplistic high school coverages), my knowledge for my position (CB) went no further than cover 0 or man coverage and opening my hips toward the sideline(if boundary corner) to maintain inside leverage forcing them to the boundary and limiting their routes to the inside. Then other coverages opening my hips to the inside keeping an eye on my man and on the QB to watch for any throws into my zone. Thing was I didn't know my zone. Needless to say I was never a starter but jeez had I had these coverages laid out like the offensive schemes are laid out here I probably would have understood it better. Oh and I can't forget my favorite defensive call - Chicago: Corner blitz lmao.
 
Yea when you have Drew on the field there's less of a need to RPO because he audibles constantly. Rarely does he go into the huddle with just one play called (that's why the play calls sound like an essay).

RPO is kind of something that developed in college and high school ball to have built in options and not force the QB audible as much. That's not it's only use, but it is a thing. And when you have someone like Drew who can quickly get in and out of plays at the line, there's less of a need to open up the RPOs.

RevDeuce also told me earlier that Kamara isn't comfortable with the RPO game, which is strange, but it could be a factor. In which case you could see them running them more with Murray at RB and having Kamara as a perimeter pass option.

Tbh, I like Murray in the backfield and Kamara in that perimeter passing role. That just gives the offense more options, but then you'd have to be rotating them. I don't know if the rb depth behind them can support doing that much of the game. But maybe use it in 2nd or 3rd and short situations.
 
Yeah, also wondering if they need to adjust playcalling to fit his skill set. Does someone else fill the joker role for Taysom? Maybe Harris? He's a bit smaller, but the speed and shiftiness seems like it would be a good fit.
Callaway might also be good in that role. He's a punt returner so he's shifty
 
Great, great thread.

And TCU Dan that cerebral comment is spot on. That is one of the reasons so many WR's drafted in the 1st round flame out. They are athletic freaks, workout warriors who simply don't have the skill and instincts to really learn the position in the NFL....
 
What is a joker. Also what is the difference between a scat back and a regular back.

A 'joker' generally speaking is just a name for a versatile offensive skill player. It's like calling a nickel hybrid safety a 'dog' or a 'bandit'. It's not an actual position, it's more of role. A guy who can line up in the slot, at H-back, at RB, flexed out wide, who you can motion in for jet sweeps, hit with screens, etc.

Joker isn't an actual position. It's a role.

Calling someone a 'scat back' just means a smaller, shiftier back. Like a Darren Sproles.
 
Great, great thread.

And TCU Dan that cerebral comment is spot on. That is one of the reasons so many WR's drafted in the 1st round flame out. They are athletic freaks, workout warriors who simply don't have the skill and instincts to really learn the position in the NFL....

Yeah, WRs have always been more of a crapshoot than most other positions in terms of the draft. It's interesting to see how well Jordan Jefferson is doing in the Vikes' offense. LSU seems to do a great job preparing their skill players for the NFL.
 
A 'joker' generally speaking is just a name for a versatile offensive skill player. It's like calling a nickel hybrid safety a 'dog' or a 'bandit'. It's not an actual position, it's more of role. A guy who can line up in the slot, at H-back, at RB, flexed out wide, who you can motion in for jet sweeps, hit with screens, etc.

Joker isn't an actual position. It's a role.

Calling someone a 'scat back' just means a smaller, shiftier back. Like a Darren Sproles.
Yea, that's what I thought on the scat back. So, any position can really be called a joker.
 
I’m obviously not Dan, but I’m not sure how active he’s been on here lately so I’ll also give it a shot at explaining a few things to the best of my knowledge.

A dig route is a route where the WR runs a few yards downfield (about 5 to 10 yards or so depending on what the play design calls for) and then cuts 90° towards the middle of the field and runs parallel to the line of scrimmage. It’s also commonly referred to as a “drag” or an “in” which is as its name infers, an inward breaking route (towards the middle part of the field, i.e. the hash marks) as opposed to an “out” route, where it’s breaking to the sideline.

Here’s a nice little diagram of the “route tree” to give a visual description if needed...
Route%20Tree.png


A “rub” route isn’t specifically a route but an offensive concept. It’s a combination of multiple routes run by more than one eligible receiver that are designed to gain separation from the defender in man coverage; essentially a “pick play” like in basketball. For example, with the defense in man coverage, you line up two WR’s on the same side of the field and the outside WR runs a slant (a short, inward breaking route), while the inside WR runs a flat (a short, outward breaking route) where the two players’ paths will cross. The inside WR would run his route where his path after he cuts outward will impede the CB (even just slightly) that’s trying to cover the outside WR and freeing him to make a catch and run, hence “rubbing off” the CB. It doesn’t have to consist of only a combination of a slant and a flat route, many different routes can be used in a rub concept, just that as long as the routes are runin close enough proximity where one of the offensive players can affect the defenders coverage of the other WR, or even better, if the offensive players can make the defenders run into each other.

As for the 3 LB vs. 2 LB’s, typically when there are 3 LB’s on the field for a 4-3 defense, the defense is in its “base personnel” (4 DL, 3 LB, and 4 DB). Sometimes they’ll sub out a LB (usually the SAM, or strong side LB) for an additional defensive back which is referred to as a “nickel” defense since you now have 5 defensive backs on the field. There are two main forms of nickel defense: “regular nickel” (where they’ll bring in a 3rd CB to play the slot) and “big nickel” (where they’ll bring in a 3rd safety instead of a CB, like we do with Gardner-Johnson).

I saw TribuneUK knocked out the personnel question pretty well, so I’ll only further add on to his post.

As he said, essentially the personnel numbers tell you how many RB’s and how many TE’s are on the field at any given time. And since there are only 5 eligible receivers on the field at any given time (excluding the QB), you can deduce how many WR’s are also on the field with the personnel number...
  • 10 personnel: 1 RB, 0 TE, 4 WR
  • 11 personnel: 1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WR
  • 12 personnel: 1 RB, 2 TE, 2 WR
  • 13 personnel: 1 RB, 3 TE, 1 WR
  • 20 personnel: 2 RB, 0 TE, 3 WR
  • 21 personnel: 2 RB, 1 TE, 2 WR
  • 22 personnel: 2 RB, 2 TE, 1 WR
  • 23 personnel: 2 RB, 3 TE, 0 WR
And so on and so forth, some of those are more commonly seen than others. But essentially the lower those 2 numbers are, the more WR’s on the field, such as “00 personnel” which is 5 WR’s on the field.
Well I know some routes like a slant and a crossing route. I know the comeback route and the go route. But the others escapes me.
 
And what about base defenses. I know the basics. 43, 34, and 46. I know they are called will (weak side), Mike (inside or middle) and Sam (strong side). What I don't know is what a 46 actually is.
 
And what about base defenses. I know the basics. 43, 34, and 46. I know they are called will (weak side), Mike (inside or middle) and Sam (strong side). What I don't know is what a 46 actually is.
46 is named after Doug Plank who played safety for the Chicago bears back in the 70s and 80s. It’s having that strong safety play in the box kinda of a 4-4 defense. He wore 46 so that’s why they called it that lol. He was my coach down in Orlando with Predators. He’s a really cool guy and has lots of stories of his playing days
 
I thought cover 0 was man. And, from rereading this thread, I now know why Carl Smith was a bad oc. He obviously never studied under Dan and deuce. Lol
 

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