TCUDan was right about TS (1 Viewer)

[zatsnzapps]

I… along with TCU Dan questioned whether or not Siemian was fools gold, and was met largely with vitriol and dismissed once again. Even though Siemian is winless as a starter, he’s done enough in garbage time and other areas of the team have faltered to have some folks really believe he wasn’t part of the problem.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't much about your posting history, well, except for that naming thing that you try to get to stick, but I keep seeing where some of you are saying TCUDan was attacked or met with vitriol (in this case).

That simply did not happen. Not by those of us that engaged in the conversation. On the flip side, we were met with a condescending attitude by him, but we still kept it respectful after that.

His point in the thread was wrong, and I pointed out specifically why. It's just as wrong today as it was a few weeks ago. We were talking about one game - the Falcons game. Nothing more and nothing less.

This false narrative that he was attacked needs to go away.

 

[Saint Taysom]

I'll be the first to admit that I don't much about your posting history, well, except for that naming thing that you try to get to stick, but I keep seeing where some of you are saying TCUDan was attacked or met with vitriol (in this case).

That simply did not happen. Not by those of us that engaged in the conversation. On the flip side, we were met with a condescending attitude by him, but we still kept it respectful after that.

His point in the thread was wrong, and I pointed out specifically why. It's just as wrong today as it was a few weeks ago. We were talking about one game - the Falcons game. Nothing more and nothing less.

This false narrative that he was attacked needs to go away.

 

[zatsnzapps]

Solid analysis.

Would subscribe to the newsletter.

 

[StudioSaint]

This false narrative that he was attacked needs to go away.

The false narrative that needs to go away is that the snarky and rude responses weren't made toward TCUDan until he made a condescending remark.

That may be true for you, but it's not true for everyone. Also, no one proved TCUDan wrong about anything in that thread, because everyone that was trying to prove him wrong was arguing against something he never said.

The point that he made was that he was concerned about the Saints ability to win with Siemian as the starting QB for an extended period of time. Time has proven his concerns to be justified.

 

[dr61258]

If you discount all his good throws as luck, then you have to discount all his bad throws as luck as well. Did he make some bad decisions? Yep. So did Drew, Brady, and Manning. But, he made some good ones too, like that TD to Trautman. He’s not a starter, he’s a backup, or he would have started the season. We are failing all over the field at one point or another. Maybe Taysom would have made a difference, but he is injured. IMO, TS + TH on the field at the same time creates our best chance.

Yep, he was awesome in garbage time.

 

[zatsnzapps]

The false narrative that needs to go away is that the snarky and rude responses weren't made toward TCUDan until he made a condescending remark.

That may be true for you, but it's not true for everyone. Also, no one proved TCUDan wrong about anything in that thread, because everyone that was trying to prove him wrong was arguing against something he never said.

The point that he made was that he was concerned about the Saints ability to win with Siemian as the starting QB for an extended period of time. Time has proven his concerns to be justified.

I appreciate you mentioning that I may not have been rude, but I'll admit that I had a snarky post for my first one in the thread. That's kind of my MO, though. Much more than getting into these types of debates. It may have been snarky, but it wasn't attacking or rude. I intentionally used the rolling eyes emoji because that's really what I was doing after reading the OP in that thread.

I still say that those of us that actually engaged in the conversation with him kept it completely above the belt. I'm talking about the posters that have several posts in the thread, and there is a handful of us.

I would ask that you go back and read my reply in that thread that you quoted and replied to that I firmly believe you didn't read the first time. When you read my full post and then read your reply, you'll see why I believe that because I addressed what you say wasn't addressed.

 

[sfidc3]

The false narrative that needs to go away is that the snarky and rude responses weren't made toward TCUDan until he made a condescending remark.

That may be true for you, but it's not true for everyone. Also, no one proved TCUDan wrong about anything in that thread, because everyone that was trying to prove him wrong was arguing against something he never said.

The point that he made was that he was concerned about the Saints ability to win with Siemian as the starting QB for an extended period of time. Time has proven his concerns to be justified.

Absolutely true....To the last point I agreed with him.

It's an internet message board many of us have played enough football to know that a drop is a drop and to know one when we see it....My only disagreement is there is not as much nuance regarding the drops against Atlanta as he seemed to think there was....

As far as TS goes, I agreed with him, especially as opposing D's got more film on him, that is when the INT's start.....and I don't expect that to get any better....I would also say with our completely decimated offense I'm not sure there is a QB out there who could turn it around....

 

[DSnfla]

I'll be the first to admit that I don't much about your posting history, well, except for that naming thing that you try to get to stick, but I keep seeing where some of you are saying TCUDan was attacked or met with vitriol (in this case).

That simply did not happen. Not by those of us that engaged in the conversation. On the flip side, we were met with a condescending attitude by him, but we still kept it respectful after that.

His point in the thread was wrong, and I pointed out specifically why. It's just as wrong today as it was a few weeks ago. We were talking about one game - the Falcons game. Nothing more and nothing less.

This false narrative that he was attacked needs to go away.

I Did not say attacked I said chastised, and it's not a false narrative. Here are some of the things that were said, "Dude, the receivers were the problem". "OP spent a lot of time typing to be flat out wrong". "This post makes no sense. He consistently put balls where they were supposed to be and the receivers failed him". Even Andrus came to his defense and said, I wish TCUDan could spend more time on this board. He is, and has always been one of our most valued members.... so I hope the flack here doesn't dissuade him. Tough crowd after losses, especially when it is to the Falcons. I also think that some members took his OP out of the context that it was intended.

 

[DSnfla]

My reason for the original post was to show that a well informed PROFESSIONAL opinion should be respected , which I feel that TCUDan's post was not. He got way too much flack from less informed posters. My best analogy is when a non-musician be they a music lover argues or puts down a long time professional musician. Non-musicians will never listen to music the way a pro musician does . The musician will know all about the nuances and what it took and the difficulty it took to make that sound or play that part, I and others think that TCUDan was given too much flack for his post

 

[Nolan]

I Did not say attacked I said chastised, and it's not a false narrative. Here are some of the things that were said, "Dude, the receivers were the problem". "OP spent a lot of time typing to be flat out wrong". "This post makes no sense. He consistently put balls where they were supposed to be and the receivers failed him". Even Andrus came to his defense and said, I wish TCUDan could spend more time on this board. He is, and has always been one of our most valued members.... so I hope the flack here doesn't dissuade him. Tough crowd after losses, especially when it is to the Falcons. I also think that some members took his OP out of the context that it was intended.

My reason for the original post was to show that a well informed PROFESSIONAL opinion should be respected , which I feel that TCUDan's post was not. He got way too much flack from less informed posters. My best analogy is when a non-musician be they a music lover argues or puts down a long time professional musician. Non-musicians will never listen to music the way a pro musician does . The musician will know all about the nuances and what it took and the difficulty it took to make that sound or play that part, I and others think that TCUDan was given too much flack for his post

For every one liner you posted, there were multiple posters who attempted to engaged in legitimate discussions with him without attacks. Myself included. He resorted to the line of asking if anyone has played QB or WR before to try and drive his point, which was insanely pompous.

He mentioned 4-5 innacurate passes that Trevor threw, which no one disagreed with, but refused to engage about the perfectly accurate passes that hit receivers directly in the hands, uncontested. Plays that were a direct result of having zero points in the 1st half. Which is ultimately what lost us the game. The tone of his post suggested that Trevor was at fault for the loss and Taysom would have done better when the tape showed that Trevor played MORE than well enough to win. No one disagreed with him that Trevor wasn't the answer; our starting quarterback is down for the year, no matter who plays QB for us at this point it's not ideal.

And then there were posters like you, who were chiming in without any sort of football discussion or substance, attacking people for disagreeing with Dan. As if it's just not possible for him to be wrong about something because he's a coach at some level. I went on record in that thread that I liked Dan, and have appreciated his football contributions to this forum over the years but thought that he was way off base with his take on Trevor and the Falcons game, and I thought his line about asking people if they've played QB/WR before was downright silly. There are a ton of members on this forum who absolutely know football, whether they've played or they haven't.

This whole 'people need to stop attacking Dan' thing needs to go to rest. No one attacked him. He created a thread, seemingly wanting a discussion, and he got one. People engaged, only this time they weren't praising the ground that he walks on, and he then decided that he wasn't actually interested in a discussion after all. No big deal. You creating another thread and rehashing this after Trevor had a bad game was pointless. Everyone knows who Trevor is, he's a backup quarterback. As if it's not bad enough that we're on our 3rd string quarterback, he's leading a team that is probably has 33% of their starters hurt, with no weapons to speak of on the offensive end. We'd be 0-3 in the last three games with Taysom quarterbacking this team as well. It's reality.

 

[DSnfla]

For every one liner you posted, there were multiple posters who attempted to engaged in legitimate discussions with him without attacks. Myself included. He resorted to the line of asking if anyone has played QB or WR before to try and drive his point, which was insanely pompous.

He mentioned 4-5 innacurate passes that Trevor threw, which no one disagreed with, but refused to engage about the perfectly accurate passes that hit receivers directly in the hands, uncontested. Plays that were a direct result of having zero points in the 1st half. Which is ultimately what lost us the game. The tone of his post suggested that Trevor was at fault for the loss and Taysom would have done better when the tape showed that Trevor played MORE than well enough to win. No one disagreed with him that Trevor wasn't the answer; our starting quarterback is down for the year, no matter who plays QB for us at this point it's not ideal.

And then there were posters like you, who were chiming in without any sort of football discussion or substance, attacking people for disagreeing with Dan. As if it's just not possible for him to be wrong about something because he's a coach at some level. I went on record in that thread that I liked Dan, and have appreciated his football contributions to this forum over the years but thought that he was way off base with his take on Trevor and the Falcons game, and I thought his line about asking people if they've played QB/WR before was downright silly. There are a ton of members on this forum who absolutely know football, whether they've played or they haven't.

This whole 'people need to stop attacking Dan' thing needs to go to rest. No one attacked him. He created a thread, seemingly wanting a discussion, and he got one. People engaged, only this time they weren't praising the ground that he walks on, and he then decided that he wasn't actually interested in a discussion after all. No big deal. You creating another thread and rehashing this after Trevor had a bad game was pointless. Everyone knows who Trevor is, he's a backup quarterback. As if it's not bad enough that we're on our 3rd string quarterback, he's leading a team that is probably has 33% of their starters hurt, with no weapons to speak of on the offensive end. We'd be 0-3 in the last three games with Taysom quarterbacking this team as well. It's reality.

This is the last I'm going to say on this. Dan's comment was spot on. If you have not played the game you truly do not really understand the nuances of the game or the position. It why every coach at almost every level is a former player. Because to really know something you have had to have done it before. Myself all I did was play HS ball so I take heed to what people that achieved a higher level than myself have to say . And I'd venture that the posters on here that have the most knowledge have played or coached ( and you almost have to have played to be a coach) at a higher level. And your remark that I attacked a poster for disagreeing with Dan , I made fun of the guy that said "OP spent a lot of time typing to be flat out wrong". Which to me sounded like a drunken post . I tried to give an analogy with music a subject I an far more familiar with but that didn't seem to help you understand . The whole thing went so far as have Andrus come out and almost apologize to Dan and hope that the flack he got would not keep him from posting.
You say I did not engage in any football discussion, well Dan and other posters pretty much all I was thinking and then some. I try not to just post the same points others already have. Anyway , I hope we can agree to disagree

 

[zatsnzapps]

I Did not say attacked I said chastised, and it's not a false narrative. Here are some of the things that were said, "Dude, the receivers were the problem". "OP spent a lot of time typing to be flat out wrong". "This post makes no sense. He consistently put balls where they were supposed to be and the receivers failed him". Even Andrus came to his defense and said, I wish TCUDan could spend more time on this board. He is, and has always been one of our most valued members.... so I hope the flack here doesn't dissuade him. Tough crowd after losses, especially when it is to the Falcons. I also think that some members took his OP out of the context that it was intended.

I agree that you said chastised. I responded directly to you on reply #35 in this thread, not this post you quoted, so I wasn't necessarily referring to you in this reply.

That said, the lines you are mentioning above are from posters that threw one-liners into the thread. To reiterate my point, I specifically mentioned those of us that engaged in the discussion with multiple posts. Those lines you mentioned didn't come from us.

If you've kept up with the threads and the responses, you'll notice none of us doubt TCUDan's football knowledge. That doesn't mean he's always right. That doesn't mean we can't disagree with him. It also doesn't mean we can't provide solid reasoning for our disagreements to have a discussion. If we're wrong, then fine, he (or anyone) can show us where we're wrong with solid evidence that shows us where we're wrong. I haven't seen that, and I have a pretty good idea why.

I pointed out in that original thread exactly why he was wrong in that OP - and he absolutely had a wrong take for that Falcons game. There is nothing that any of us said that should dissuade him from posting here as he wasn't attacked. If we can't have discussions about different perspectives, then what are we all doing on a message board?

 

[saintjay]

Just wondering out loud: Could some of the receiver's drops be because Siemian's throws are not as hard as other qb's? I'm probably incorrect, but just wondering if that is part of the problem.

 

[efil4stnias]

I agree that you said chastised. I responded directly to you on reply #35 in this thread, not this post you quoted, so I wasn't necessarily referring to you in this reply.

That said, the lines you are mentioning above are from posters that threw one-liners into the thread. To reiterate my point, I specifically mentioned those of us that engaged in the discussion with multiple posts. Those lines you mentioned didn't come from us.

If you've kept up with the threads and the responses, you'll notice none of us doubt TCUDan's football knowledge. That doesn't mean he's always right. That doesn't mean we can't disagree with him. It also doesn't mean we can't provide solid reasoning for our disagreements to have a discussion. If we're wrong, then fine, he (or anyone) can show us where we're wrong with solid evidence that shows us where we're wrong. I haven't seen that, and I have a pretty good idea why.

I pointed out in that original thread exactly why he was wrong in that OP - and he absolutely had a wrong take for that Falcons game. There is nothing that any of us said that should dissuade him from posting here as he wasn't attacked. If we can't have discussions about different perspectives, then what are we all doing on a message board?

Your evidence is about to be in the books. Dan's post was about his weaknesses.
Every last one was on display tonite.
When teams go to prevent and he can lock on to first read and target gets open, he ok.
When it matters, he is horrible. And that is being kind. Has no ability to feel in pocket. No ability to lead a WR. No ability to anticipate and no touch.

But yall swore that all those flaws were not the problem. The WRs were.

And here we are.

 

[SaintInBucLand]

Your evidence is about to be in the books. Dan's post was about his weaknesses.
Every last one was on display tonite.
When teams go to prevent and he can lock on to first read and target gets open, he ok.
When it matters, he is horrible. And that is being kind. Has no ability to feel in pocket. No ability to lead a WR. No ability to anticipate and no touch.

But yall swore that all those flaws were not the problem. The WRs were.

And here we are.

Drew even said it tonight a couple times during the broadcast. When Drew would say, he got that completion on the first read, meaning that is all he is capable of throwing to, the first read.