Team needs vs. Draft position..... (1 Viewer)

oodank

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I hear a lot of us saying "he'd be a good fit, but not at #10." If we need what he's offering, why not at #10? If we drafted LB Conner, or LB Lofton, or even CBs Mckelvin or Jenkins at #10 why would that be too high? The only difference would be the amount of money, right? Well, somebody's gotta get the #10 money. Why not a guy we think is going to be the best at the position we need the most help at.
If we all think LB is our biggest need, don't wait: get the best LB at #10. If its CB, then draft him at #10. Just because the perception is "you cant draft that guy that high because you can't pay him #10 money" I don't buy into that.

How many of us REALLY believe DT is our #1 need? Probably not half of us. But we'll probably draft one if Ellis falls because it'll be said he is better than the best CB, or LB. And we need more help at CB and LB??? I'm just taking a simplified approach to filling needs, thats all. This is always an arguable topic to me....
 

StChadwick

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How many of us REALLY believe DT is our #1 need?
At this point if we just chose any BPA on the defensive side I dont think anyone will complain much. Any selection of any position on that side will marginally increase the productivity of the whole unit and like you said, IF Ellis is available, he would instantly improve whomever safeties and CB's we have, and/or hopefully get double-teamed and allow the LB's to again help them. With the money Briggs, Trufant, and Samuel will be asking, trading up and picking Ellis at 8 would be the cheapest and fastest way to improve our defense. That and the fact that Young is getting older and Hollis has one foot into retirement. Imagine if we had just one consistent player pressuring last year? No secondary in the league would have been successful last year if they had the same lack of pressure from our front 7. Made our average at best secondary look :covri:
 

lilvipa221

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At this point if we just chose any BPA on the defensive side I dont think anyone will complain much. Any selection of any position on that side will marginally increase the productivity of the whole unit and like you said, IF Ellis is available, he would instantly improve whomever safeties and CB's we have, and/or hopefully get double-teamed and allow the LB's to again help them. With the money Briggs, Trufant, and Samuel will be asking, trading up and picking Ellis at 8 would be the cheapest and fastest way to improve our defense. That and the fact that Young is getting older and Hollis has one foot into retirement. Imagine if we had just one consistent player pressuring last year? No secondary in the league would have been successful last year if they had the same lack of pressure from our front 7. Made our average at best secondary look :covri:
i guarantee you said that john sully would have the same type of impact right? you never know with rookies
 

StChadwick

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i guarantee you said that john sully would have the same type of impact right? you never know with rookies
To tell you the truth I hadnt said anything then as I had moved to Nevada and lost touch with the ends and outs of the team and knew even less about players entering the draft.

I seriously doubt though he or Dorsey will touch the kind of disappointment Sully was. Just watching what Dorsey endured every game after the injury and just how he returned to school to get a championship shows me a lot about a player. Only way they bust is if they are lazy and neither one has shown that, especially what Dorsey went through, its not in his nature. With that said, EVEN if they are busts, losing a 3rd rounder isnt losing much compared to what the upside seems to be with either one. This team sacrificed drafts for Rickey and Sully, but I wouldnt compare those to moving up 2 spots IF one is still there this year. If a sure safety or CB was there then ok, but since there doesnt seem to be, then why not go for it as any selection in the first round is a crap shoot?
 

seraph33

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I hear a lot of us saying "he'd be a good fit, but not at #10." If we need what he's offering, why not at #10? If we drafted LB Conner, or LB Lofton, or even CBs Mckelvin or Jenkins at #10 why would that be too high? The only difference would be the amount of money, right? Well, somebody's gotta get the #10 money. Why not a guy we think is going to be the best at the position we need the most help at.
If we all think LB is our biggest need, don't wait: get the best LB at #10. If its CB, then draft him at #10. Just because the perception is "you cant draft that guy that high because you can't pay him #10 money" I don't buy into that.

How many of us REALLY believe DT is our #1 need? Probably not half of us. But we'll probably draft one if Ellis falls because it'll be said he is better than the best CB, or LB. And we need more help at CB and LB??? I'm just taking a simplified approach to filling needs, thats all. This is always an arguable topic to me....
I don't care if you have 2 champ baileys, ronnie lot, and rod woodson in your secondary (in their prime of course), if you don't get a pass rush on the QB, they will more often than not pick you apart. Getting a top DT in either FA or draft would allow us to get more pressure on the QB with just our front 4. That will help our secondary. FA is the place to look for immediate CB help. Rookie CB's usually don't play very well their first year (there are exceptions though). I'm for the BPA available policy except this year let's alter it to Best Defensive player available. We could use help at every position on defense. Hell I wouldn't be ticked if we took a DE in the first round (look at the Giants with their 3 DE rotation, but they also have a better DT's than us). BDPA is my motto unless some really stellar offensive player drops to us (LT - Long).
 

birdog

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We hardly ever draft secondary in the 1st rd....I don't even remember when we drafted one...Alex Molden ? We always seem to go after the big guys in the 1st rd...defense or offense, it don't matter. I don't think this new regime is any different than past ones when it comes to the draft. So that is reflected on this forum by many, who follow the Saints past draft patterns....
 

sycamoresaint

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first, i hardly think that we will trade up from 10. it's doubtful that we trade down unlesss the offer is too good to pass up. our decision makers on moves (loomis, whoever) are very good at that. as for filling need vs bpa, the ultimate hope is that you are able to do both. to me cb is our biggest need, so if we can get the firast one off the board at 10 that would be close to a bpa on defense at least. i hardly see us going offense with the first pick. if, and it's a huge if, one of the top 2 dt's falls to us at 10 we would have to scoop him up, because i feel that after cb, dt will help us the most, and we may be able to get a good lb with the 41st pick which is what it should be since the pats lose their first round pick. there is still plenty of time to see what unfolds- fa, combine. but don't get too attached to the "sexy" fa's since we don't have the history of shelling out big $$$$$$$$$$ for free agents. if we can get 3 defensive guys with the first 4 picks i'll be happy.
 
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oodank

oodank

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i guarantee you said that john sully would have the same type of impact right? you never know with rookies
I guarantee you he didn't say that because when they traded up NOBODY thought they where going to get Sully. I thought they would get K.Williams, who MIN drafted after they slept their position a couple slots for financial reasons. That was a crazy 1st round right there! Everybody started running their picks in once MIN refused to submit a pick.
 

brianw37

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I don't care if you have 2 champ baileys, ronnie lot, and rod woodson in your secondary (in their prime of course), if you don't get a pass rush on the QB, they will more often than not pick you apart. Getting a top DT in either FA or draft would allow us to get more pressure on the QB with just our front 4. That will help our secondary. FA is the place to look for immediate CB help. Rookie CB's usually don't play very well their first year (there are exceptions though). I'm for the BPA available policy except this year let's alter it to Best Defensive player available. We could use help at every position on defense. Hell I wouldn't be ticked if we took a DE in the first round (look at the Giants with their 3 DE rotation, but they also have a better DT's than us). BDPA is my motto unless some really stellar offensive player drops to us (LT - Long).
oh really? well denver has one champ bailey, one dre bly, one john lynch and a dline that is far worse than ours and they ranked 6th against the pass this year! the g-men have one of the best d-lines in all of football and last year with the same line and weak secondary they were exposed in the passing game all year long. fast forward one year they pick a rookie corner(arron ross) and they have a superbowl ring. my points is having a killer d-line with no secondary will not solve our problems in the passing game.

our defensive line is the STRENGTH of our defense except for hollis our guys are young and talented. yes they performed poorly this year, but 3 of them were hurt most of the year(grant,clancy, and young) when young is healthy hes a good pass rusher up the middle he led our team in sacks before he was hurt, and charles grant is also a force when healthy. we could use some situational backups(for pass rushing) but all and all our dline is fine.

the secondary on the other hand is pure trash, outside of a healthy mm! we have no real starting talent, yea usama is young(no pun intended) and un proven but we need to start bringing in more elite young talent in this area. im not talkin about drafting a guy in the 3rd or 4th round and hope he pans out. we should get the best one possible and hope he pans out.

sorry to be so long winded but i just think its time for a change. we had a good if not killer d-line for quite some time now and almost no secondary. even going back to the days of joe johnson and darren howard. can anyone here name a time when we had two stud corners? im not saying that u dont need a d-line, because we all know it all starts up front. im just saying it dosent end up front, u gotta have talented guys in the back end as well to have a good defense. idk maybe im a little biased toward corners because i used to play the position but sometimes i get upset when i hear people say a good dline will improve your secondary. no good dline will improve sack totals. good secondary personal is the only thing that will improve a weak secondary!

i truly think this draft is a crucial one for our current coaching regime. i love coach p. and i think hes taking this franchise in the right direction but a stumble here could really close the window for a team that i think is close to the ultimate prize. people can say what they will about BPA but it just makes no sense to be loaded at one position and weak at another. teams dont attack your strengths they do the opposite, and work around your strengths. champions improve their weaknesses, not cover them up.
 

oldschool

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oh really? well denver has one champ bailey, one dre bly, one john lynch and a dline that is far worse than ours and they ranked 6th against the pass this year!
Means nothing.
idk if you remember, but a few years back we were ranked as high as 6th against the pass, actually top 10 for few years running.
Venturi's D.
With the likes of everyone's favorite whipping boy F. Thomas back there.

Everyone here credits the atrocious run defense is the reason for the pass defense good numbers.
"Why pass when you could run on them all day?"
^Remember that?

idk about you, but I hope we do not emulate the Broncos' D.
All that money in the secondary with nothing to show for it.

What gets me is how those SB champs lately don't have a great secondary at all.
They have schemes there to compensate that area.
Usually, they can attack the QB with much fewer personnel, 4, it allows them more personnel package into coverage, and it works.

Obviously, we can't do that, yet.
If you ask me, improving the front seven will help us more than trying to emulate what the Broncos are doing. Not that the Broncos D is good to begin with..
 

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Sign FA's DT Starks, WR Johnson, and CB Florence. That opens up the draft.
1. DT Ellis or CB Jenkins.
2. MLB Lofton, DT Balmer, DT Sims, TE Davis, OLB Gooden, CB Godfrey or CB King.
3. WR Bowman, MLB Leman, DT Moore, OLB Crable or TE Rucker.
4. DT Okam, OLB Butler, S Zbikowski, CB Williams or DE Jones.
5. OLB Gatewood, TE Davis, DE Gilberry, CB Terrell or RB Odom.
6. DT Shirley, WR Jackson or C Legursky.
7. TE Sperry, OLB Hoke, SS Roach or DE Johnston.
 

BoNcHiE

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How many of us REALLY believe DT is our #1 need? Probably not half of us. But we'll probably draft one if Ellis falls because it'll be said he is better than the best CB, or LB. And we need more help at CB and LB??? I'm just taking a simplified approach to filling needs, thats all. This is always an arguable topic to me....
The front office isn't stupid enough to pass on the best DT in the draft, a huge position of need for us anyway, to draft a lower ranked LB based on need. Especially when LB is so deep in this draft its ridiculous.
 

Super Dad

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Its one this to take a guy at 10 that may have been the 13th or even16th most talented guy but to say we would take Lofton, a projected 2nd round guy is a little out there. This will be the most important draft in the history of the Saints under Sean so I hope it looks like this.

1.Ellis- he is worth the 10th and if Dorsey has a good combine he will be the 1st DT taken for sure.
1a. Cromartie-Trade up with third next season and this seasons second and get Cromatie late in round 1.
2.Lofton or Mayo Use a late rounder to trade up into the 2nd and get Lofton or Mayo

For the rest give me a young QB aTE and a WR/KR to compete
 

Slim K

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Its one this to take a guy at 10 that may have been the 13th or even16th most talented guy but to say we would take Lofton, a projected 2nd round guy is a little out there. This will be the most important draft in the history of the Saints under Sean so I hope it looks like this.

1.Ellis- he is worth the 10th and if Dorsey has a good combine he will be the 1st DT taken for sure.
1a. Cromartie-Trade up with third next season and this seasons second and get Cromatie late in round 1.
2.Lofton or Mayo Use a late rounder to trade up into the 2nd and get Lofton or Mayo

For the rest give me a young QB aTE and a WR/KR to compete
*Wakes up in dissapointment*
 

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