Team needs vs. Draft position..... (2 Viewers)

[SaintsJunkie]

I hear a lot of us saying "he'd be a good fit, but not at #10." If we need what he's offering, why not at #10? If we drafted LB Conner, or LB Lofton, or even CBs Mckelvin or Jenkins at #10 why would that be too high? The only difference would be the amount of money, right? Well, somebody's gotta get the #10 money. Why not a guy we think is going to be the best at the position we need the most help at.
If we all think LB is our biggest need, don't wait: get the best LB at #10. If its CB, then draft him at #10. Just because the perception is "you cant draft that guy that high because you can't pay him #10 money" I don't buy into that.

How many of us REALLY believe DT is our #1 need? Probably not half of us. But we'll probably draft one if Ellis falls because it'll be said he is better than the best CB, or LB. And we need more help at CB and LB??? I'm just taking a simplified approach to filling needs, thats all. This is always an arguable topic to me....

let me help make a believer out of you, qbs had one of the highest ratings against us this year, due to our lack of pass rush, our corners would look much better if they only had to cover for 3 seconds, when did drew brees or tom brady struggle this year...........when they had lots of pressure on them. we need to replace and/or add to our 30 year old DTs, they would help our ends get single coverage and would help our run defense. Now two young DTs that can move the pocket and pressure and/or sack opposing qbs would make us much better on defense

 

[seraph33]

oh really? well denver has one champ bailey, one dre bly, one john lynch and a dline that is far worse than ours and they ranked 6th against the pass this year! the g-men have one of the best d-lines in all of football and last year with the same line and weak secondary they were exposed in the passing game all year long. fast forward one year they pick a rookie corner(arron ross) and they have a superbowl ring. my points is having a killer d-line with no secondary will not solve our problems in the passing game.

our defensive line is the STRENGTH of our defense except for hollis our guys are young and talented. yes they performed poorly this year, but 3 of them were hurt most of the year(grant,clancy, and young) when young is healthy hes a good pass rusher up the middle he led our team in sacks before he was hurt, and charles grant is also a force when healthy. we could use some situational backups(for pass rushing) but all and all our dline is fine.

the secondary on the other hand is pure trash, outside of a healthy mm! we have no real starting talent, yea usama is young(no pun intended) and un proven but we need to start bringing in more elite young talent in this area. im not talkin about drafting a guy in the 3rd or 4th round and hope he pans out. we should get the best one possible and hope he pans out.

sorry to be so long winded but i just think its time for a change. we had a good if not killer d-line for quite some time now and almost no secondary. even going back to the days of joe johnson and darren howard. can anyone here name a time when we had two stud corners? im not saying that u dont need a d-line, because we all know it all starts up front. im just saying it dosent end up front, u gotta have talented guys in the back end as well to have a good defense. idk maybe im a little biased toward corners because i used to play the position but sometimes i get upset when i hear people say a good dline will improve your secondary. no good dline will improve sack totals. good secondary personal is the only thing that will improve a weak secondary!

i truly think this draft is a crucial one for our current coaching regime. i love coach p. and i think hes taking this franchise in the right direction but a stumble here could really close the window for a team that i think is close to the ultimate prize. people can say what they will about BPA but it just makes no sense to be loaded at one position and weak at another. teams dont attack your strengths they do the opposite, and work around your strengths. champions improve their weaknesses, not cover them up.

It's the whole does a dline make a secondary better or does a secondary make a dline better. There's evidence to go either way as you pointed out. I have to respectfully disagree with you on the state of our dline. While it is the strength of our defense, it's not a really good group. We have really good DE's, but the DT's have been lacking. Thomas really didn't play well this year. I thought Young played some of his best football with us this season, but he couldn't stay on the field. I'd love to have him back though as long as he wasn't too expensive. We are lacking at every defensive position. I think a stud DT (haynesworth, dorsey, ellis) would have the most immediate affect on hiding some of our other weaknesses on D. We can't retool the entire D in one offseason. If someone like Darnelle Revis was there at 10, I'd be all about taking him. The problem is I'm not all that impressed with some of the CB's this draft. I think there are some good one's but not at 10 (I think we'd be reaching and could grab someone of similar caliber in the 2nd round). If we were to trade down, then I think that could be a good spot to grab a CB, but not at 10 (as of right now . . . someone may really post some impressive workout numbers and change my mind). At the 10 spot you are in a good position to get a good DT or DE. If Ellis or Dorsey are around at 7-8, then move up if it doesn't cost us an arm and a leg. Rookie CB's just don't usually do well their rookie season. We do need to improve and get younger at the position (I agree), but we probably won't see the results of that this year if we go through the draft. Hell even DT's don't have a good track record for rookie seasons. It's usually DE, LB, and S that tend to have an impact during their rookie year. Good post though. You brought up good points, just have to disagree a bit with you assessment.

 

[seraph33]

so if we couldn't get pressure with 4, and Gibbs still did not want to blitz... What is that telling you: Itz saying "even though we're not getting that much pressure, we cannot afford to commit more bodies up front due to our GLARING deficiencies in pass coverage."

I think you are failing to realize, that even if we draft CB at 10, the chances are he's not going to play much better than a Jason Craft this season. You don't typically see immediate results with rookie CB's. So if we do like you say and draft a CB at 10, baring any other improvements to our D we're most likely to have glaring deficiencies in our pass coverage yet again.

If you want immediate impact then go LB. They have to best record for making immediate contributions, but the middle of our Dline is weak. As one poster pointed out already, Young and Wynn are both FA at this point. Thomas really slumped after getting his contract. As it stands, he's the only person at DT that you can claim to be a starter. If you get a guy who will command a double team in the middle, that will help free our DE's up (instead of having to swing wide everytime b/c the opposing Oline can leave an extra guard to block off the inside) and LB's during blitzes. Opposing QB's had way too much time to throw on us this season (and I really can't remember a game where we really got after the QB this season). For immediate results, I think DT or even LB would help us more. CB would be a position best served in FA. Even if you get middle tier FA at CB, if you get a good LB or DT to go along with him, you are going to see some results.

That said I would really love to get our hands on Gibril Wilson at S from the Giants. He's scheduled to be a FA. He would be a really good addition to our secondary (though he plays SS which is Harper's position, but then again he really hasn't set the world on fire with his play either).

 

['79 Saints]

so if we couldn't get pressure with 4, and Gibbs still did not want to blitz... What is that telling you: Itz saying "even though we're not getting that much pressure, we cannot afford to commit more bodies up front due to our GLARING deficiencies in pass coverage."

Yeah, I am. And the sad part is even when they did blitz, they STILL couldn't get consistent pressure... that's why it takes 11 guys to make a defense work, and right now the Saints have about three.

Upgrade your d-line first so you don't have to blitz as much and you can protect your secondary. Even the best corners get beaten... if you can rush four and drop seven, then that is an effective defense for nearly every team in the league. The Broncos had one of the best secondaries (on paper) in the league, but their defense stunk because they couldn't stop the run, nor could they effectively pass rush.