Terron Armstead? {Old thread bumped} (1 Viewer)

[HeadManGoSaints1]

No no no no, don't crawfish on your argument now someone has provided the numbers that you're willfully ignoring to spew your fragmented rhetoric about Armstead. Here, let me quote your Bill Walsh quote for you to remind you of your stance.



Castonzo missing 5 games last year means he missed 31.3% of the Colts' games in 2018. As a result, they ended up not winning their division considering they went 1-4 in the games he missed and only made the playoffs as a Wild Card. Had Castonzo been available prior to Week 6, the Colts could've won 2 more games (or at least the game against Texans they lost in OT) to win their division and get a home playoff game instead of having to go on the road to Houston.

Williams missing 9 games in the last 2 seasons, 13 games over the last 3 seasons, and 16 games over the last 5 seasons means he missed 28.1% of the Redskins' games between 2017 and 2018, 27.1% of the Redskins' games between 2016 and 2018, and 20.0% of the Redskins' games between 2014 and 2018. Had Williams been available between Weeks 9-11, maybe Alex Smith doesn't get gruesomely injured and the Redskins win that game against the Texans putting them 7-3 and maintaining their 1st place in the NFC East and likely go on to make the playoffs instead of leaving the Redskins QB-less.

Smith missing 9 games in the last 3 seasons means he missed 18.8% of the Cowboys' games between 2016 and 2018.

Brown missing 10 games in the last 3 years means he missed 20.8% of the Seahawks' and Texans' games between 2016 and 2018.

Peters missing 9 games in the last 2 years means he missed 28.1% of the Eagles' games in 2017 and 2018.

You keeps spouting about Armstead missing time but fail to acknowledge that nearly every single top-LT in the league has missed significant time due to injury at some point within the last 5 years.

The fact of the matter is you said Armstead wasn't available, well by YOUR OWN METRIC neither were a handful of the other top-LT's in the NFL. I guess no one outside of their respective fan bases will remember their name either when they retire, right? Or is that another one of your statements you're going to backtrack on? ?



I wouldn't doubt it one bit. The verbiage and argument is eerily similar. I hope the Andrus or one of the other mods can verify the IP and if so ban their dumb*** again.

That's their career numbers. They can speak for themselves. And also there is no need for name calling. Just healthy debate.

 

[HeadManGoSaints1]

If you start a sentence about Armstead with "when healthy" then I think that's a problem.

I should correct that response. If you start a sentence with "when healthy" for a player under 30 then that's a problem.

 

[Alan12]

That's their career numbers. They can speak for themselves. And also there is no need for name calling. Just healthy debate.

Their career numbers are irrelevant considering all 5 of those players' careers significantly pre-date Armstead's time as a starter.

Williams has been in the league since 2010. Between 2012 and 2014, he missed 1 game. Over the next 4 years he missed 15 games (nearly an entire season's worth). Now explain to me how him missing only 1 game between 2012-2014 did anything to help him the next 4 years?

Smith has been in the league since 2011. His first 5 years in the league (2011-2015), he missed only 1 game. The next 3 years he missed 9 games total. Over a half-season's worth.

Castonzo also has been in the league since 2011. He has 6 seasons where he played all 16 games, didn't help him last season where he missed the first 5 games of the year.

Brown has been in the league since 2008 and has 6 seasons of his own where he played all 16 games. However, he's also had 3 seasons where he's missed at least 4 games and started 12 or less and 2 additional seasons where he missed at least 2 games.

Peters has been in the league since 2004 and has 5 seasons where he played all 16 games. However, he's also missed at least 2 games in 5 seasons, 6 if you want to include 2012 when he tore his achilles in the offseason and missed the whole year.

The only reason you're using their career numbers is because it props up your argument that Armstead is the only one that's battled injuries despite the fact that most of the seasons that these players played in all 16 games or only missed 1 game came before Armstead was ever even a full-time starter and inflates their percentage of games started vs. games missed. That's why the only stats I'm using are from 2014 and on.

Since Armstead took over as a full-time starter in 2014:

• Trent Williams: 3 seasons missing at least 3 games, missed 6 games in 2017
• Tyron Smith: 3 seasons missing at least 3 games, 2016-2018 all had 3 games missed
• Anthony Castonzo: 2 seasons missing at least 3 games, missed 5 games in 2018
• Duane Brown: 2 seasons missing at least 4 games, missed 6 games in 2017
• Jason Peters: 2 seasons missing at least 2 games, missed 9 games in 2017

Nearly every LT is going to get banged up and miss significant time. Period.

And I didn't call you a name, if I would've called you a name it would've been in my reply to you. Not another poster. I said if the aforementioned poster that was previously banned is returning to this thread under a new username that his/her dumb*** needs to be IP-banned.

The only way I am indeed calling you a name is if you're admitting to be that very poster. Do you have something you'd like to confess to us or did you already just out yourself? ?

 

[Thunderchild]

And I didn't call you a name, if I would've called you a name it would've been in my reply to you. Not another poster. I said if the aforementioned poster that was previously banned is returning to this thread under a new username that his/her dumb*** needs to be IP-banned.

The only way I am indeed calling you a name is if you're admitting to be that very poster. Do you have something you'd like to confess to us or did you already just out yourself? ?

Lol!

 

[StudioSaint]

That's their career numbers. They can speak for themselves. And also there is no need for name calling. Just healthy debate.

I think you're missing the crucial point. You don't cut a player without replacing them.

Who do you propose the Saints replace Armstead with as starting LT? And since the Saints have to deal in the world of reality, please be realistic in your response.

 

[HeadManGoSaints1]

Their career numbers are irrelevant considering all 5 of those players' careers significantly pre-date Armstead's time as a starter.

Williams has been in the league since 2010. Between 2012 and 2014, he missed 1 game. Over the next 4 years he missed 15 games (nearly an entire season's worth). Now explain to me how him missing only 1 game between 2012-2014 did anything to help him the next 4 years?

Smith has been in the league since 2011. His first 5 years in the league (2011-2015), he missed only 1 game. The next 3 years he missed 9 games total. Over a half-season's worth.

Castonzo also has been in the league since 2011. He has 6 seasons where he played all 16 games, didn't help him last season where he missed the first 5 games of the year.

Brown has been in the league since 2008 and has 6 seasons of his own where he played all 16 games. However, he's also had 3 seasons where he's missed at least 4 games and started 12 or less and 2 additional seasons where he missed at least 2 games.

Peters has been in the league since 2004 and has 5 seasons where he played all 16 games. However, he's also missed at least 2 games in 5 seasons, 6 if you want to include 2012 when he tore his achilles in the offseason and missed the whole year.

The only reason you're using their career numbers is because it props up your argument that Armstead is the only one that's battled injuries despite the fact that most of the seasons that these players played in all 16 games or only missed 1 game came before Armstead was ever even a full-time starter and inflates their percentage of games started vs. games missed. That's why the only stats I'm using are from 2014 and on.

Since Armstead took over as a full-time starter in 2014:

• Trent Williams: 3 seasons missing at least 3 games, missed 6 games in 2017
• Tyron Smith: 3 seasons missing at least 3 games, 2016-2018 all had 3 games missed
• Anthony Castonzo: 2 seasons missing at least 3 games, missed 5 games in 2018
• Duane Brown: 2 seasons missing at least 4 games, missed 6 games in 2017
• Jason Peters: 2 seasons missing at least 2 games, missed 9 games in 2017

Nearly every LT is going to get banged up and miss significant time. Period.

And I didn't call you a name, if I would've called you a name it would've been in my reply to you. Not another poster. I said if the aforementioned poster that was previously banned is returning to this thread under a new username that his/her dumb*** needs to be IP-banned.

The only way I am indeed calling you a name is if you're admitting to be that very poster. Do you have something you'd like to confess to us or did you already just out yourself? ?

You did your research. But here is some food for thought. Since 2014 when Armstead became a full time starter:
Trent Williams has missed 16 games and has never played a full season.
Tyron Smith has missed 9 games and has played a full season twice.
Anthony Castonzo has missed 8 games and has played a full season 3 times.
Duane Brown has missed 28 games and has played a full season twice.
Jason Peters has missed 11 games and has played a full season 3 times.
Terron Armstead has missed 26 games and has never played a full season.

Also keep in mind that every one of those players are older than Armstead (Peters 37 and Brown is 33.) Meaning that their bodies have been through the wear and tear. If Armstead can't play a full season at 27 it's going to much more difficult to play one at 33-35. But answer this question for me please. Do you think Armstead is injury prone? There is no right or wrong answer and feel free to use whatever you think necessary to answer that question. Age, position, player comparisons. Whatever. There is no right or wrong answer. It's just an opinion. I say yes. And also I apologize about the name calling thing. This message board thing is new to me and I'm still trying to figure it out.

 

[HeadManGoSaints1]

I think you're missing the crucial point. You don't cut a player without replacing them.

Who do you propose the Saints replace Armstead with as starting LT? And since the Saints have to deal in the world of reality, please be realistic in your response.

Honestly I don't have that answer. I'm not a coach or an executive. I'm just stating that I feel Armstead misses way too much time for the cap number he takes up and the money he makes. If he was still on his 3rd round rookie deal or even maybe a 5th year option as a 1st round pick then it wouldn't be as frustrated. But for a guy making that money and carrying that cap number, it's not good.

 

[SaintJ]

There's no Plan B. If he's healthy for keeps after October 15, this is a very dangerous team. We roll the dice like every other team does at key positions.

Not sure there's much else to say.

 

[StudioSaint]

Honestly I don't have that answer. I'm not a coach or an executive. I'm just stating that I feel Armstead misses way too much time for the cap number he takes up and the money he makes. If he was still on his 3rd round rookie deal or even maybe a 5th year option as a 1st round pick then it wouldn't be as frustrated. But for a guy making that money and carrying that cap number, it's not good.

It's less than ideal that he misses games, but what he brings to the team as the starting tackle is irreplaceable at the moment, all things considered.

So why all the animosity for him being on the team and how much he is paid? The Saints are paying him market rate, because all things considered, he has been and still is their best option at LT.

 

[HeadManGoSaints1]

It's less than ideal that he misses games, but what he brings to the team as the starting tackle is irreplaceable at the moment, all things considered.

So why all the animosity for him being on the team and how much he is paid? The Saints are paying him market rate, because all things considered, he has been and still is their best option at LT.

That's a good question. Obviously it's the money/cap number. And you're right, he is getting paid market value. But also I think in the back of my head it's that he is such a good LT and such a vital part of this team's success that him missing all that time is just frustrating.