The 49ers holding the WRs before half. (1 Viewer)

Krodwhodat

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Just heard Hebert say he watched the Saints practice that numerous times in camp and practice. Interesting because in my 40 years of watching football I never saw that.


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MSUSousaphone

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It sucked to watch. Felt cheated. But was smart and by the rules. Surprised they beat the Patriots to it.

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gpupil

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I thought the same thing about the Patriots. Seemed a very Belicheck thing to do.
 

superchuck500

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It sucked to watch. Felt cheated. But was smart and by the rules. Surprised they beat the Patriots to it.

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Yep. Easy to see how it could be used at the end of a half, but I was trying to imagine how it could be used at the end of a game.

So if the premise is that it's better to give up the first down but just five yards (insuring against a long gain or a touchdown) because the offense has limited time and the clock is more valuable than the yardage, I suppose that it could also be used when you're defending a lead and have just kicked off with less than 20 seconds or so left not the clock. The offense is going to try to get a completion or two to get close enough for a hail mary. The defense could take a couple of holding calls to milk the clock a bit without giving up enough yardage to really help the hail mary.

The same thought could potentially be applied to keep a team from getting in field goal range (if there is very limited time on the clock - something in the order of 15 seconds or less).
 

WallyBB

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I don't begrudge a team that finds a loop hole... but I feel strongly that there should never be a scenario where a defense benefits from purposefully committing a penalty. It is a loophole that should be closed immediately.
 
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Krodwhodat

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Yep. Easy to see how it could be used at the end of a half, but I was trying to imagine how it could be used at the end of a game.



So if the premise is that it's better to give up the first down but just five yards (insuring against a long gain or a touchdown) because the offense has limited time and the clock is more valuable than the yardage, I suppose that it could also be used when you're defending a lead and have just kicked off with less than 20 seconds or so left not the clock. The offense is going to try to get a completion or two to get close enough for a hail mary. The defense could take a couple of holding calls to milk the clock a bit without giving up enough yardage to really help the hail mary.


I was thinking about this as well. Needs to be something like in basketball like an intentional/flagrant foul like 15 yards and 10 second add. But I guess it's just like intentional grounding. When you want to stop the clock you intentionally ground it but that's ok....

As far as the end of the game. It can't end on a defensive penalty.


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GW93

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It makes sense for the end of the half, so you end up forcing your opponent to settle for a field goal, but at the end of the game, it's not nearly as valuable. If all your opponent needs is a field goal, you don't want to get them any closer. And if they need a touchdown, you don't want to risk giving them untimed down after untimed down until you set them up for a throw to the end zone.
 

Saint Kamara

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Smell a rule change coming in the future..
my nephew and I were discussing this and unless this would have happened to Brady, Favre or Manning, I dont think anything will come of it.

If they did change it, then you simply assess the 5 yard penalty as a dead ball foul, resetting the game clock to what it was at the snap of the ball.....just need the rule for plays inside of 15 seconds of each half
 

superchuck500

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I was thinking about this as well. Needs to be something like in basketball like an intentional/flagrant foul like 15 yards and 10 second add. But I guess it's just like intentional grounding. When you want to stop the clock you intentionally ground it but that's ok....

As far as the end of the game. It can't end on a defensive penalty.


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Indeed, the game can't end on a defensive penalty - the offense still gets their hail mary (or their long field goal). But if they only have 16 or 18 seconds left after a touchback, they're looking to advance the ball in a couple of nice chunks before setting up the hail mary or long field goal. A defense using this strategy could keep that from happening. If the offense runs five or six seconds off the clock and the receivers are all held - it's a five yard penalty . . . much better than giving up a 15 yard out route. It makes it harder to down field enough for a long FG or to set up a hail mary that the QB knows he can get it there.
 

andregurov

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While I can appreciate the genius in calling your DBs to all hold, knowing that the situation would realistically not provide the Saints with any advantage from incurring the penalty, I can't help but think this is the action of a desperate coach. Can you imagine the message that sent to his defense: that they were incapable of stopping the Saints offense in that position - that there was ZERO possibility you could get a sack or a turnover - cannot sit well with prideful men who want to compete.

Under Belichick that move could be considered a strategic one. When your team is 1-6 and reeling, yet very much in the game at that point, though? It seemed more desperate than canny. Knowing Kelly's history of alienating his best offensive players and similarly knowing that he isn't in the NFL because he has any defensive chops, this seems more like a potentially embarrassing and team-imploding move than any stroke of genius. Save 4 points ... yet erode what little confidence your humiliated defense had. 1-6 teams aren't that way because their coach is a master at exploiting situations. They are that way because their coach has lost the plot.
 

Algsaint

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This can definitely be used at the end of the game. If a team has to drive down the field and have little time left then you can just hold them every play and pretty much run the clock out . The only play the offense would have is the Hail Mary


There needs to be a change in the rules
 
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Umm we should do this holding thing if a team needs a TD and is a considerable distance away from our endzone and there is only 13 seconds or so left (just enough time for two plays). Hold them and take the 5 yards but waste 8 seconds or so.
 

Saintaholic

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Not many people know this, but referee has the right to award a touchdown if he feels a team intentionally is cheating the rules. I feel this is a situation where that should be applied. What they did was unsportsmanlike, making it impossible for us to score by intentionally breaking rules.
 

superchuck500

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Umm we should do this holding thing if a team needs a TD and is a considerable distance away from our endzone and there is only 13 seconds or so left (just enough time for two plays). Hold them and take the 5 yards but waste 8 seconds or so.
I think the way it plays out is that a good QB would recognize it (in this end-of-game scenario we're discussing, not the way it was used at the end of the half today). To hold the WRs, the DBs would have to be in fairly close/press coverage - rather than the prevent you would expect. If the QB sees this, he can throw it right away to minimize time lost. I don't think it would ever be eight seconds - that's a lot of time in that scenario.

There's also the risk that the WR gets free and is behind the defense.
 

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