The bravery of Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam (1 Viewer)

SaintInBucLand

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It may not be a popular opinion here, but I believe Governor Ralph Northam is brave by his support of Representative Kathy Tran. I believe he is brave because there is no doubt the right will try to vilify him and he had no doubt they would(and which they currently are at the posting of this). He is standing up for a woman's right to choose no matter what may be said about him, and that takes character and bravery.

Bill linked here: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?191+sum+HB2491

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/politics/ralph-northam-third-trimester-abortion/index.html

Northam is a pediatric neurosurgeon and can speak intelligently on this subject, we should defer to his expertise.
 
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I see we have one person who hits the dislike button without responding. It would be nice if the mods made it so if you hit the dislike button your identity was known(just like the likes and meh), or you had to at least make a post.
 

Saint_Ward

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I see we have one person who hits the dislike button without responding. It would be nice if the mods made it so if you hit the dislike button your identity was known(just like the likes and meh), or you had to at least make a post.
There's a huge reason we keep it unknown. Basically some people just can't handle a dislike (which minimized posts of "that's stupid"), and would then counter stalk the person "red thumbing" them.

And it's not a Moderator call. It's Andrus'.

Regarding the article. I'm not sure how I feel about it all. But this quote is the key.

"[Third trimester abortions are] done in cases where there may be severe deformities. There may be a fetus that's nonviable. So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen," Northam, a pediatric neurosurgeon, told Washington radio station WTOP. "The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother."
I'd really hate to see abortions due to minor deformities. Like those kids' lives have no meaning. Is downs syndrome going to be a deformity?

If the fetus isn't viable, or it's such a bad deformity that the odds of survival are low and expensive, well, I can kinda see some logic there. But, I still think if the kid has a shot at life, by that point, you're really robbing the world of something potentially good.

Anyway, if the restrictions are relaxed for specific reasons, I'd be warmer to it.

Northam said he supports the bill's measures, telling WTOP that "we want the government not to be involved in these types of decisions. We want the decision to be made by the mothers and their providers."
This bugs me a bit more, because I feel like it opens the door to Dr assisted suicides.
 
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SaintInBucLand

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I'd really hate to see abortions due to minor deformities. Like those kids' lives have no meaning. Is downs syndrome going to be a deformity?

This bugs me a bit more, because I feel like it opens the door to Dr assisted suicides.
Isn't that for the woman to decide? Also, I'm not sure I follow on how this opens the door to Dr assisted suicide(which I think should be legal)
 

rob22278

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Call it what it is. Murder. Notice he doesn’t use the word Fetus. He uses Infant.
 

Saint_Ward

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Isn't that for the woman to decide? Also, I'm not sure I follow on how this opens the door to Dr assisted suicide(which I think should be legal)
For government to get of of medical decisions. Some of these decisions are beyond medical, they're legal, and the State dictates medical licensing. That's how I'm connecting the two ideas.

Regarding your first questions, well, i'm not a lawyer, but the Supreme Court's decision was about medical privacy. However, the argument about viability was always baked in there.

From wiki's summary.

"Later, in Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992),[3] the Court rejected Roe's trimester framework while affirming its central holding that a woman has a right to abortion until fetal viability.[4] The Roe decision defined "viable" as "potentially able to live outside the mother's womb, albeit with artificial aid."[5] Justices in Casey acknowledged that viability may occur at 23 or 24 weeks, or sometimes even earlier, in light of medical advances.[6] "
 

superchuck500

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It may not be a popular opinion here, but I believe Governor Ralph Northam is brave by his support of Representative Kathy Tran and her bill linked here: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?191+sum+HB2491

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/politics/ralph-northam-third-trimester-abortion/index.html

Northam is a pediatric neurosurgeon and can speak intelligently on this subject, we should defer to his expertise.
I think this in insufficient post for an OP on the PDB. It doesn't explain what the issue is. Doesn't state what the Tran bill says or does, or what Gov. Northam had to say about it.

It should be edited to include that information.
 
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I think this in insufficient post for an OP on the PDB. It doesn't explain what the issue is. Doesn't state what the Tran bill says or does, or what Gov. Northam had to say about it.

It should be edited to include that information.
I posted a link to the full bill as well as an article stating Gov. Northam's reasoning behind supporting the bill. Is that not enough? I though it was frowned upon cutting and pasting entire articles into the post?
 

Saint_Ward

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I posted a link to the full bill as well as an article stating Gov. Northam's reasoning behind supporting the bill. Is that not enough? I though it was frowned upon cutting and pasting entire articles into the post?
Tease the article.

Also, it wouldn't hurt to write a bit more about what your point is, or why. Why is he brave? Are we discussing the bill, or his bravery?
 

superchuck500

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I posted a link to the full bill as well as an article stating Gov. Northam's reasoning behind supporting the bill. Is that not enough? I though it was frowned upon cutting and pasting entire articles into the post?
No, I don't think it's enough. The OP should frame the discussion - not present a research project. Other than the name of the link in your post, there's nothing to indicate, whatsoever, what the bill is about, what the issue is, what the debate is about, or what Gov. Northam said.

You're correct that the posting of entire articles is undesirable, unless the article is a public-domain source (like a .gov, for example). But you didn't post any part of any article . . . nor did you provide your own explanation. Using segments or teases of articles is entirely acceptable and effective.

I'm not dumping on you, and certainly not because I disagree with anything you're getting at - I really just don't know what you're getting at because the OP is lacking in my opinion. The PDB is a substantive discussion forum, if you're going to start a thread, tell us what it's about
 
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No, I don't think it's enough. The OP should frame the discussion - not present a research project. Other than the name of the link in your post, there's nothing to indicate, whatsoever, what the bill is about, what the issue is, what the debate is about, or what Gov. Northam said.

You're correct that the posting of entire articles is undesirable, unless the article is a public-domain source (like a .gov, for example). But you didn't post any part of any article . . . nor did you provide your own explanation. Using segments or teases of articles is entirely acceptable and effective.

I'm not dumping on you, and certainly not because I disagree with anything you're getting at - I really just don't know what you're getting at because the OP is lacking in my opinion. The PDB is a substantive discussion forum, if you're going to start a thread, tell us what it's about
Edited my OP to include more of why I believe he is brave for his stance.
 

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There's a huge reason we keep it unknown. Basically some people just can't handle a dislike (which minimized posts of "that's stupid"), and would then counter stalk the person "red thumbing" them.

And it's not a Moderator call. It's Andrus'.

Regarding the article. I'm not sure how I feel about it all. But this quote is the key.



I'd really hate to see abortions due to minor deformities. Like those kids' lives have no meaning. Is downs syndrome going to be a deformity?

If the fetus isn't viable, or it's such a bad deformity that the odds of survival are low and expensive, well, I can kinda see some logic there. But, I still think if the kid has a shot at life, by that point, you're really robbing the world of something potentially good.

Anyway, if the restrictions are relaxed for specific reasons, I'd be warmer to it.



This bugs me a bit more, because I feel like it opens the door to Dr assisted suicides.
Agreed

Depends on the circumstances, but also your beliefs. When does life begin? When is it a Human with rights of its own. That question drives your beliefs on this issue.
 

superchuck500

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Edited my OP to include more of why I believe he is brave for his stance.
So now the OP tells me, sort of vaguely, that the bill relates to abortion because you reference the woman's right to choose. I still have no idea what any of it is about other than to surmise it relates to abortion. :shrug:

Did I get it right?
 
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SaintInBucLand

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So now the OP tells me, sort of vaguely, that the bill relates to abortion because you reference the woman's right to choose. I still have no idea what any of it is about other than to surmise it relates to abortion. :shrug:

Did I get it right?
I think you're being intentionally obtuse at this point. May be a good time to add to my ignore list.
 

Taurus

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What he's basically saying is that you don't even entertain a 3rd trimester abortion unless things have gone horribly, tragically wrong. Loading up the resulting decisions with legal butt-covering and hoop-jumping only creates delays that can end a woman's life.

Even if you end up delivering, what you get is a vegetable that lives its short, miserable life breathing through a tube while the parents go broke.
 
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SaintInBucLand

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What he's basically saying is that you don't even entertain a 3rd trimester abortion unless things have gone horribly, tragically wrong. Loading up the resulting decisions with legal butt-covering and hoop-jumping only creates delays that can end a woman's life.

Even if you end up delivering, what you get is a vegetable that lives its short, miserable life breathing through a tube while the parents go broke.
Thank you. Nice to see somebody make an intelligent contribution without being snarky.
 

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