The bravery of Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam (1 Viewer)

SaintInBucLand

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It may not be a popular opinion here, but I believe Governor Ralph Northam is brave by his support of Representative Kathy Tran. I believe he is brave because there is no doubt the right will try to vilify him and he had no doubt they would(and which they currently are at the posting of this). He is standing up for a woman's right to choose no matter what may be said about him, and that takes character and bravery.

Bill linked here: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?191+sum+HB2491

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/politics/ralph-northam-third-trimester-abortion/index.html

Northam is a pediatric neurosurgeon and can speak intelligently on this subject, we should defer to his expertise.
 
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Oye

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I came across this tweet - just for context, Faith Goldy is a white supremacist who ran for mayor of Toronto. She didn't get very far, sufficed to say. But she decided to chime in on the blackface controversy with some false equivalency (which she just loves as a rhetorical device) of her very own


 

billinms

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I came across this tweet - just for context, Faith Goldy is a white supremacist who ran for mayor of Toronto. She didn't get very far, sufficed to say. But she decided to chime in on the blackface controversy with some false equivalency (which she just loves as a rhetorical device) of her very own


You've got to at least see the humor in that.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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There is no context where a white person dressing up as a black person by darkening their skin is acceptable because of the historical implications related to blackface.
the very long, very complicated, very treacherous history of blackface (and in particular minstrelsy) is acquired and not implicit knowledge
i would hazard a guess that most on this thread discussing it know about 1/10th of complete knowledge of the practice
many of us probably had no idea we were singing minstrel songs in grade school or mickey mouse's connection the practice

joey behar (of her own volition) showed the picture only 4 years ago - with an african-american co-host who supported the image (now, i'm certainly not saying raven might not have publicly supported it, but privately vilified it b/c there's no room in the mainstream for black people to point out white problematic behavior)
but there was no hue and cry about blackface at the time for an obvious reason
 

mt15

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Okay, having perused that infamous list, I wish to withdraw my comment on the Jamaican bobsled wannabe. His picture was awful. I was imagining someone in the uniform and wearing a helmet.

Still, I’m having trouble lumping Behar in with the more problematic ones. I have to take her at her word, from the clip, that it was an “imitation is the sincerest form of flattery” type of thing.

And oye has me curious, having not seen Tropic Thunder, what about that use of blackface made it okay? It’s on the “list” and the link takes you to a pretty scathing review from The Root when the movie came out.
 

farfromsilent

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Okay, having perused that infamous list, I wish to withdraw my comment on the Jamaican bobsled wannabe. His picture was awful. I was imagining someone in the uniform and wearing a helmet.

Still, I’m having trouble lumping Behar in with the more problematic ones. I have to take her at her word, from the clip, that it was an “imitation is the sincerest form of flattery” type of thing.

And oye has me curious, having not seen Tropic Thunder, what about that use of blackface made it okay? It’s on the “list” and the link takes you to a pretty scathing review from The Root when the movie came out.
Actually if you have ever seen the movie, you would know that they condemn blackface in it. Brandon Jackson's character (Alpa Chino) calls Downey's character (Kirk Lazarus) out for his depiction of a black character from someone who has never experienced being black. It's actually a great exchange, and hilarious (the point in a comedy). I would post the scene here, but I'm fairly certain that the language is against TOS.
 

billinms

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Okay, having perused that infamous list, I wish to withdraw my comment on the Jamaican bobsled wannabe. His picture was awful. I was imagining someone in the uniform and wearing a helmet.

Still, I’m having trouble lumping Behar in with the more problematic ones. I have to take her at her word, from the clip, that it was an “imitation is the sincerest form of flattery” type of thing.

And oye has me curious, having not seen Tropic Thunder, what about that use of blackface made it okay? It’s on the “list” and the link takes you to a pretty scathing review from The Root when the movie came out.
RBJ, aka Kirk Lazarus, Tropic Thunder

kirk-lazarus-tropic-thunder.jpg
 
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Oye

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And oye has me curious, having not seen Tropic Thunder, what about that use of blackface made it okay? It’s on the “list” and the link takes you to a pretty scathing review from The Root when the movie came out.
briefly, four things

1. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it. I think by admitting it is lying to us, it's among the most honest war movies ever made.

2. I read the Root piece - they are entitled to their opinion, but the article was very superficial and didn't actually lodge any complaints with substance behind them. The closest they got was quoting some other peoples' opinions, which didn't seem to provide a case - I think they actually summarized the context well but didn't connect that summary to the condemnation

3. the micro/individual - It's pretty clear, in the movie, that there's obvious objection to his trivialization of the use of blackface and how co-opting an image is a poor approximation for the struggle that actual black people face. It's simulacrum, and a poor one at that. By doing that, it lampoons the use of blackface and renders it insulting and dismissive. It seems to me, anyway, to be a pretty obvious and explicit condemnation and criticism of it. Now, I can see the argument that any use trivializes the use of blackface, and I am not objecting to it - but I still disagree with that.

4. the macro/meta - the film, taken in its entirety, gets into this notion of fiction and reality. If Tim O'Brien has a sense of humor, I would think this is the war movie he would appreciate being made - because it plays with the notions of reality and fiction. That there is a place where story truth (i.e. how the story is told) is more compelling and 'truer' than happening truth (i.e. what actually, factually happened).

There's also the implicit nod to Baudrillard's fake hold up having real repercussions, but that's probably beside the point.

The entire film addresses, not so obliquely, the tension that exists between appearance and reality. And I think that, when applied to the use of blackface, becomes even more reasonable and relevant. Because if the entire movie is making a farce out of long held notions of masculinity, war, authenticity, etc then everything in that movie is similarly vulnerable to that critique - and that includes the use of blackface.

I don't understand, personally, how someone can walk away from seeing that movie and taking it as face value (literally, in this case, I suppose) and thinking some sort of flat, de-contextualized interpretation of blackface is all that the film offers.

If you want to acknowledge these various implications and still disagree, that's fine. But the entirety of the context should be considered before we arrive at some sort of conclusion as opposed to merely jumping to one.
 

Oye

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caveat: at the end of Mad Max Fury Road, when I saw it in the theater, I audibly said - and at least a half dozen people around me heard - that the archway at the end of the film, in the final chase scene in the valley through the arch, was "obviously a vagina"

I explained that all of the overtly masculine war machines giving chase were "obviously mechanized, weaponized spermatozoa" but that only made it worse.

And I also remarked that the seashell at the end of Moana, on top of the stack of rocks, was far too obviously yonic to be ignored and heavy-handed

so it's also possible that I watch movies differently than most folks
 

farfromsilent

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caveat: at the end of Mad Max Fury Road, when I saw it in the theater, I audibly said - and at least a half dozen people around me heard - that the archway at the end of the film, in the final chase scene in the valley through the arch, was "obviously a vagina"

I explained that all of the overtly masculine war machines giving chase were "obviously mechanized, weaponized spermatozoa" but that only made it worse.

And I also remarked that the seashell at the end of Moana, on top of the stack of rocks, was far too obviously yonic to be ignored and heavy-handed

so it's also possible that I watch movies differently than most folks
Never seen Mad Max Fury Road. Is it weird that this makes me want to go watch it now?
 

guidomerkinsrules

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and of course referencing Tropic Thunder (fine movie) for it's use of blackface, when we have access to the far more pertinent 'Bamboozled' seems...apt
 

Oye

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and of course referencing Tropic Thunder (fine movie) for it's use of blackface, when we have access to the far more pertinent 'Bamboozled' seems...apt
I admit I never finished it. Lee's stuff was wearing on me prior to that. But if you think it has particular relevance here, feel free to address it and enlighten the rest of us. And the ensuing blind spots as a result of text selection
 

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