The Chickens are coming home to roost (1 Viewer)

[Jameth]

Honestly, I'm still ticked we selected Anthony over Kendricks.

The issues we've had at cornerback are as old as time. We've spent untold resources trying to fill that cup, but can't seem to address the leaking hole.

 

[DEUCERICKBOY02]

Honestly, I'm still ticked we selected Anthony over Kendricks.

The issues we've had at cornerback are as old as time. We've spent untold resources trying to fill that cup, but can't seem to address the leaking hole.

I don't think Anthony is a bust Allen just won't use him for whatever reason. Guy has talent find a place for him

 

[DavidM]

I don't think Anthony is a bust Allen just won't use him for whatever reason. Guy has talent find a place for him

Could be nothing more than some growing pains and a learning curve as Allen implements his vision for the defense. If we're speculating, it could be that some players might just be further ahead at this point...nobody on this board knows.

Payton was reportedly emphasizing player evaluation in the first game (for whatever that is worth) and it's entirely possible that we will see changes as players get more reps.

 

[klewis33]

Agree but technically Kikaha has had 2 ACL injuries, not 3. Also, Anthony is still coming off an injury, he played well the snaps he got.

 

[thetownedrunkard]

Sounds like a lot of points I made in the offseason about our draft in 2015 but was told by many how wrong I was and how it was almost as good as 2006.

 

[thetownedrunkard]

Honestly, I'm still ticked we selected Anthony over Kendricks.

The issues we've had at cornerback are as old as time. We've spent untold resources trying to fill that cup, but can't seem to address the leaking hole.

I was also banging the drum for Kendricjs for the simple fact he was by far the consensus best pass coverage backer in the draft and that has been one of our defenses biggest weaknesses for years now. At worse he would have been a great nickel backer. Anthony looks like a two down backer. Complete waste of a first round, a guard and a two down backer, two positions that have the lowest value on a team we burned first round picks on....

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I look forward to seeing your analysis on how the Saints compare to all of the other teams over the same time period.



Assuming that the Saints have been relatively worse than most of the other teams with personnel decisions for several years, then wouldn't the fact that the Saints have done no worse than 7-9 under Payton, make his coaching performance a bit impressive?

I'll say this..I probably should do that and us winning skewers our draft positioning and ability to acquire talent via that avenue as compared to a team like the raiders.

However you don't really notice major misses in drafts/FA unless you are missing on both. The 2014 Draft and FA haul/contract extensions together were atrocious. Overall since 2012 our off seasons have been average to below average (12 due to bounty and 16 not counting yet) and our record since the majority of the SB talent left after 2013 has mirrored that with back to back 7-9 seasons. This offseason off 1st looks is on the above average side. Thomas, Onyemata, Rankins,Fairley looked or look to be contributors or role players at the least. Lasco flashed on STs and solidifies what looks to be a 2006ish draft on 1st glances.

Well compete this year and should improve on 7-9 but we'd need some serious luck to be a playoff threat come Week 18 if we made it that far. Already we'll need to be road warriors to get to 8-8 because we've already lost a home game. In order to do that we'll have to improve every game...and the potential is there to do that due to youth. However, a few more unlucky injuries on D will cripple any chance of early momentum.

That Team friendly deal Drew took is a precursor to a significant offseason push to make a big run in 2017.

 

[Surviving Saint]

The window is officially closed.

 

[Ciaftog]

OP analysis is spot on. That said, the parade of horrible he posted would suggest the team is worse than it really is. Due credit has to be given to the management for developing Snead and Breaux and some picks have worked out reasonably well - Davison and Thomas come immediately to mind. Beyond personnel though, as others have noted before, bouncing from scheme to scheme on defense is probably more damaging than drafting and signing mistakes. Both Tull and Kikaha were drafted to be 3-4 players. It's not really fair to classify them as busts when they were likely not a good fit for the current scheme. The stability we've shown on offense allows players to work on fine tuning and fitting in. Defense has been precisely the opposite. Having said all that I am in the camp that suspects Johnsob and Vitt may also be part of the problem.

 

[Kamara Time in NO]

Wonder if players that would have been taken with the 1st and 2nd rounder from the Bounty debacle would have helped?

Given the rest of the evidence you presented, these picks probably would have just been wasted anyway.

I agree with your analysis. The Saints need to get a football man in the front office to pair with Payton, someone who isn't afraid to challenge him. I just don't see Mickey Loomis as anything but a "yes" man when it comes to football decisions. Here's an idea that's just crazy enough it might work. Whose the one person Payton would definitely listen to and respect? How about Bill Parcells for Saints GM? He probably wouldn't do it, but man that would be a very intriguing pairing.

 

[gregh]

was it gameplan as they said for week 1? we have to give them until atleast the 4th game to see what this team has...

 

[blackadder]

All true.

But for all that, I like where the organization is headed, and remain a strong Sean Payton fan.

However, I have considered that it may be time to revise the front office -- something is not working. You can't really just promote Loomis and bring in a new GM, because Lauscha's the president already. And I am not sure that we would fire Loomis under almost any circumstances -- Tom Benson is very loyal to people who show loyalty to him, and somehow we've managed to never lose 10 games in a season since 2005.

I am willing to see where this now-younger team is at the end of the year, hopefully with a healthy Breaux and Rankins, and no more snake-bite in the secondary -- our top four CBs in April are all now out: Breaux, Lewis, Wilson and Swann. That's too much for almost any organization to replace in training camp. With five minutes left in the third quarter, before Breaux got hurt, we were up 24-10 and playing pretty good defense. I want to see how this plays out.

Do you think Loomis is not working with Payton and giving Payton what he wants?

Payton ran off GW, hired Spags, hired Ryan. His consent has to be on a lot of these decisions. This is his team the same way before it was Haslett's team under Loomis.

If you remain a Sean Payton fan, then he needs a boss because he's got too much on his plate in the way Mora had too much on his plate after Finks died, and he has proven he is not nearly as skilled working the defense and the running game as his is working with Brees.

 

[blackadder]

A Number of things I'd like to note as it revolves around yesterday's loss.



1) When Delvin Breaux got hurt his immediate replacement was an UDFA Rookie. Let that sink in. As recently as 2014 we spent a 2nd rounder on a CB(3rd/5th in 2015) and signed at least 3 to contracts yet were still down to UDFA's as immediate replacements.

2) Jairus Byrd = 10mil Cap Hit
Cam Jordan = 5mil Cap Hit
$15 Million Dollars = 5 Tckls and 0 impact plays between them.

3) CJ Spiller = 4mil Cap HIt = inactive because of a #'s game. Returning Kickoffs is something he's excelled at throughout his career and yet we collectively hold our breaths as Murphy receives a kick or punt for the 2nd year in a row.

4) We used the 13th draft pick on a starting LG. Carl Nicks was a 5th rounder

5) Our 31st pick from a year ago Stephone Anthony played less snaps than a waiver wire request in 2015 in Michael Mauti.

6) We used a 2nd round pick on a passrusher with 2 ACL injuries who is out with a 3rd ACL injury.

7) We have $35 million in dead money. Only 1 of those players is currently on the team. Jahri Evans. That equates to 8 different players we no longer have on the team that could have been of use in Sunday's game.

8) John Jenkins all 6'3 350 lbs of him got single blocked by a Center on top of picking the wrong gap that lead to a 70yd TD. A man that's 350lbs who we drafted using a 3rd round pick to be a NT to tie up 2 blockers got single blocked 3 yds off the ball. Let that sink in.

9) Since 2006 we've used 7 draft picks on WR's. Of those 7 only 2 were high draft picks Cooks/Meachem. The rest were lower round picks and yet we've been a top 5-10 passing offense for much of the decade. In that same span we've used 3 draft picks on RB's. Two 1st' and a 4th. 1 of them was a satellite back and the other Ingram. During this 10 year span we haven't had a single 1000 yard rusher and every year we look to improve the running game. Does it not seem like the RB position may be harder to hit on than WR for us and more important thus the need to be looking at RB talent much closer? I mean we kept 6 RB's for christ sakes..........utterly no reason for that.

10) We have 6 RBs on the roster meanwhile only 5 DBs but we are a passing team

11) Wonder if players that would have been taken with the 1st and 2nd rounder from the Bounty debacle would have helped?

12) Since 2012 alone we've made a ton of FA acquisitions/Drafts/ Player transactions. Curtis Lofton, David Hawthorne, Will Herring, Erik Lorig, Corey White, Akiem Hicks, Champ Bailey, Brandon Browner, Jairus Byrd, CJ Spiller, Ben Grubbs, Brodrick Bunkley, Chris Chamberlain, Barrett Rudd, Nick Toon, Andrew Tiller (Still in league) Marcel Jones, Tyrunn Walker, Keenan Lewis, Benjamin Watson, Victor Butler, Rufus Johnson, Kenny Stills, Rafael Bush, Stanley Jean Baptiste, Khari Fortt, Ronald Powell, Tavon Rooks, Vinnie Sunseri, Dannel Ellerbe, Davis Tull, Stephone Anthony, Damian Swann.

I'm not going to even add these guys up but these players are either no longer on the team, under performing, or partaking in roles that don't fit justify their draft position. That's a lot of high profile misses in a 3-4 year span. Bad FA signings, bad resignings, bad draft picks, bad cuts...you name it....its all been bad.




So while we sit here and debate over whether it was the missed field goal, the int, the injury to Breaux, or the refs that cost us Sunday's game the truth is our problems started way before the clock started from 15:00 in the 1st Q of Sundays game.

Really well done.

Now consider that record of decision making without a Brees on the roster. Pair that with a mediocre QB, maybe a Matt Schaub, and then think what Sundays look like.

 

[Brock Compeaux]

OP analysis is spot on. That said, the parade of horrible he posted would suggest the team is worse than it really is. Due credit has to be given to the management for developing Snead and Breaux and some picks have worked out reasonably well - Davison and Thomas come immediately to mind. Beyond personnel though, as others have noted before, bouncing from scheme to scheme on defense is probably more damaging than drafting and signing mistakes. Both Tull and Kikaha were drafted to be 3-4 players. It's not really fair to classify them as busts when they were likely not a good fit for the current scheme. The stability we've shown on offense allows players to work on fine tuning and fitting in. Defense has been precisely the opposite. Having said all that I am in the camp that suspects Johnsob and Vitt may also be part of the problem.

Tull can't play in a 4-3, 3-4, 3-3-5 or any other defensive combination you can imagine. He is simply not good enough for the NFL. He is not even on an NFL roster in a league starved for pass rushers.

 

[dvdman]

Not if you still have Drew Brees and the high powered offense we seem to have again this season. If we can just get our defense to improve a little and most importantly create some TURNOVERS.

The window is officially closed.