The Clemens Fiasco (1 Viewer)

[Mr. Sparkle]

P.S. This is a joke. These congressmen actually took time to read all the evidence about Roger Clemens. Seriously? There are literally trillions of things they should be doing other than having a deposition about a guy who will obviously deny, deny, deny. And now his wife is admitting she took HGH. This is so beyond stupid that congress is taking time to do this.

Congress strangles plenty of other industries with endless regulation and pointless chest-beating. Why should baseball be any different? They enjoy certain anti-trust protections given them by Congress, so they should have to do the same kabuki everyone else does.

Baseball should count itself lucky they dont have to deal with DHS or OSHA on a regular basis. Talk about wastes of time and money.

You'd be hard pressed to find another industry that takes in as much revenue as MLB that is so lightly regulated.

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

I'm not saying Clemens is innocent or guilty, but many times in the various testimonies, the actual verbage will be "discussed" or "talked about", and this is being translated as "took" or "used". Did Pettitte actually say that Clemens "took" HGH/steroids, or did he say they "discussed" HGH/steroids. If the word is "took", then did Clemens tell him that or did McNamee? I want to hear verbage that is unquestionable first, where Pettitte says that Clemens told him to his face that he himself took HGH/steroids. The misunderstanding issue with Debbie Clemens and Pettitte thinking that Roger was talking about himself is a bit flaky, I'll admit, but even then, I'd like to see what Pettitte's response to that would be.

Petitte said Clemens told him he took them.

 

[tenordas]

"You're guilty 'till proven guilty
Isn't that the law?
Guilty 'till proven guilty
That's what we saw!

Justice isn't blind
It just looks the other way
Not from want of trying
I have nothing left to say."

U.S. Representative Cummings just ended this whole thing. His argument for those who haven't seen it: If McNamee wasn't lying about Knoblauch and Pettitte, why should I think he's lying about you? Pettitte, who Clemens has stated is a stand-up individual, is saying you took HGH/Steroids. Is he not now a stand-up guy?

Using this same logic, how can anyone believe McNamee since he's been caught out in several lies already?
Pettitte supposedly said that Roger had used HGH, not steroids. He said that McNamee told him (in 2004, I believe it was said) that he "had Roger's steroids".

The point is that so far there is no evidence against Clemens except one completely unreliable witness that no lawyer with half a brain would put on a stand in a real court case. Every legal adviser/authority has said that all of the "evidence" McNamee introduced in this hearing would have been thrown out in every court in America.

Did he or didn't he? I don't know, but this is America, not South Africa or Italy. He's innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

 

[peytonknows]

He's guilty.

 

[threexcharm]

The trainer seems to have lied in the past to try and protect the players. It appears that he is coming clean with the investigators now. It still makes him a liar.

Clemens is also a liar. I believe the trainer. If Clemens does not watch out, the Department of Justice may step in, prosecute, convict, and put his carcass in jail for a while, because of his perjury.

Joe

 

[St.Ryan]

"You're guilty 'till proven guilty
Isn't that the law?
Guilty 'till proven guilty
That's what we saw!

Justice isn't blind
It just looks the other way
Not from want of trying
I have nothing left to say."



Using this same logic, how can anyone believe McNamee since he's been caught out in several lies already?
Pettitte supposedly said that Roger had used HGH, not steroids. He said that McNamee told him (in 2004, I believe it was said) that he "had Roger's steroids".

The point is that so far there is no evidence against Clemens except one completely unreliable witness that no lawyer with half a brain would put on a stand in a real court case. Every legal adviser/authority has said that all of the "evidence" McNamee introduced in this hearing would have been thrown out in every court in America.

Did he or didn't he? I don't know, but this is America, not South Africa or Italy. He's innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

Roger Clemens is guilty. In my mind.

 

[peytonknows]

He's guilty.

I:bowdown: agree.:bowdown:

 

[steveohh]

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BUSTED!

:mdr168:

 

[saintfan-n-alex]

bottom line if you dont fail a test then you should not be accused of anything - then all of this he said - he said would og away.

the accuser in this case only came forward to save himself from trouble, which makes him a Conspirator and his testimony alone isnt enough to convict someone - so they are hoping to get these people on other charges.

all the while MLB was in on it wtih the players - Clemons, Bonds, Selig - no difference in any of them - they all have the same evidence against them - someone claiming they did something with no actual solid proff they did.

just find away to make it right going forward - or dont

 

[slowmotion]

He's a major league baseball pitcher. The fact that our politicians are involved is ridiculous. I couldn't care less if he or anyone else used. Just make sure the testing is in place to prevent future players from using. Move on. There are more important things our politicians need to be working on.

From SI's Tom Verducci: "Anyone who thinks Congress has no business hauling Clemens into their arena should have been paying attention to the revelation made by chairman Henry Waxman (D-Ca.) at the start of the hearings. Waxman said he was ready to cancel the hearing and issue a bipartisan report, apparently flummoxed by the completely divergent stories being told by Clemens and McNamee. But Waxman said Clemens' attorneys pushed him to make sure the hearings went off as scheduled. Their position was that Clemens needed this hearing, that it would have been unfair to Clemens 'without giving Clemens the opportunity to testify in public.' Bottom line: The Rocket asked for this."


There is a seven page blog that gives a pretty detailed account of what happened today. It takes a long time to read and once you get started it is hard to stop. I don't even care about baseball nor roger clemens but I found reading the blog very interesting. Here is the link:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/richard_deitsch/02/12/blog.clemensmcnamee/6.html

 

[geauxboy]

What's more sad is that the owners are being sheilded from any wrong doing. Sure, they may not have told a player to do it, nor did they actually inject a player, but they knew what was going on and let it go for the all mighty dollar.

 

[RABDOG]

clemans did roids, if he wants to prove his innocents then all he has to do is take a dna test....then if the bloody gals and sarenges don't have traces of hgh and clemons dna then stop the presses, but roger won't take the test because he knows he did it, if his best friend andy pettiot did it and they both talked about doing it, and if roger's wife did it, then roger is a lier and he knows it, everybody knows it.

 

[Shadeaux]

He's guilty.

No he's not! Everybody is just misremembering the facts here.

 

[Pure Energy]

Of all the items discussed the one I found most difficult to believe is that Roger had no inkling McNamee had given his wife an HGH shot or knew anything about HGH until after his wife started to complain about circulation problems and itching. She acknowledges the shot but it's a bit much to believe that Roger knew absolutely nothing about it in advance.

McNamee's version is much more believable.

Debbie Clemens' HGH injection from McNamee

In his deposition to the committee, McNamee told of injecting Clemens' wife, Debbie, with HGH in 2003, with Roger Clemens looking on.

"She was . . . very into the Hollywood scene," McNamee said in his deposition. "I think she was finding out that people in Hollywood were taking growth hormone and how great it was for women and body fat and youthful appearances and such."

Before the injection, McNamee said Debbie Clemens said to her husband, "I can't believe you're going to let him do this," to which McNamee said Roger Clemens answered, "He injects me, why can't he inject you?"

Yet Roger Clemens testified he was not present at the time of his wife's injection, and "found out later in the evening. . . . Prior to [McNamee] injecting my wife, we had no discussion about HGH. We never discussed HGH in detail."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/la-sp-steroidhighlights14feb14,1,6790832.story

 

[primadox]

I still find it interesting that the only statement from Pettitte regarding what Roger actually told him, and that McNamee confirmed, involved HGH, not steroids. Also, in Pettitte's statement, McNamee got angry when he found out Clemens had told Pettitte about the HGH, saying it was "confidential". Yet 3 years later McNamee volunteered information to Pettitte regarding Clemens and steroids...??? And again, Pettitte's statement was ""I can just remember, you know, Mac telling me that Roger, you know, that he had gotten steroids for Roger," Pettitte said. "That surprised me." "Gotten steroids" for him doesn't mean Clemens used them. And again, why would McNamee be so angry about confidential information and then 3 years later volunteer equally sensitive information? My thoughts? Roger used HGH, and is lying about it. I'm not so sure about the steroids, however. I keep hearing about how steroids were "gotten" and "discussed", but other than McNamee there is no proof that Clemens took steroids. Pettitte's information seems to back up the HGH use, however, and HGH was not illegal at the time, IIRC. Still, Roger is lying about that part, I'm sad to believe. Article on Pettitte's statement: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080214/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bba_steroids_pettitte_7

The only part that nags me is that Clemens has everything to lose for being caught in a lie, yet if he did HGH and even steroids, an admission, apology and assurance that these were isolated instances would have saved his reputation in the long run. Now, even if McNamee is found to be lying about everything, Clemens' reputation is still trashed because of public opinion. That is what still makes me wonder if he is innocent...he has everything to lose by fighting this, even if he "wins", vs. an admission and apology, which would have gotten him off the public opinion hook much earlier, a la Pettitte.