The Dereck Chauvin trial (10 Viewers)

Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Messages
1,460
Reaction score
2,656
Age
57
Location
Carriere Ms
Offline
Sticky Post
I don’t have much to say about this but if you heard the testimony of some of the prosecutions witnesses today and didn’t have a tear in your eye you aren’t human. Yes the man had a criminal record, yes the man had drugs in his body but he didn’t deserve to die like that. Could the drugs have killed him???? Maybe. Did he have other health conditions that could’ve killed him???? Maybe. But that cop took those decisions into his on hands and brought about an outrage in this country that’s been at the surface for a long time. God it’s time we turn to you.
 

sfidc3

Pro-Bowler
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Messages
3,795
Reaction score
4,584
Offline
You're delusional if you think the crowd intervening physically would have had a higher probability of a peaceful ending than not.

In the meantime, the rest of us will continue to live in reality.
Uh, I agree with you....read my post again, or am I missing something here?
 

guidomerkinsrules

W H A T E V I R
VIP Contributor
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
62,893
Reaction score
104,451
Location
by the cemeteries
Online
Easily

The problem is the government has agents who violate people's rights through violence and are not held accountable. They have been shown that they violate right of people of any race.

Why would you want to focus on race? If racism in the police was magically gone, they would still be violating people's rights, nothing is solved.
The only answer I could see you having is that you are ok with police violating people but you want it in the exact same ratio to match demographics.
I am not ok with them doing it at all. That should be the focus.

If someone with no power is a racist, sure it sucks but they don't have power to do much about it.

Police have unchecked power, so if they are racists then it has a big consequence. The fix is to check the power, but it seems to get lost and bogged down with the race issue. Its to a degree that "anti-racists" attack a senator who is actually proposing bills to check police power. So you can't say its not getting bogged down by the race issue, because it clearly is.
there is no fix to the racism problem without also addressing power imbalance
OTOH you could easily paper of the 'power' imbalance with some 'no child left behind' or 'all lives matter' type rhetoric
the libertarian urge to treat the symptom and not the disease will continue to fail
 

tomwaits

Frontier Psychiatrist
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Messages
16,337
Reaction score
6,230
Age
45
Location
Pflugerville, TX
Offline
Let me see if I follow.

You're saying that police reform CAN happen without addressing racism. Let's break that down a minute. Which of these is the implication of your statement?

A) There are no racist police officers, therefore racism does not need to be addressed for police reform to occur.
B) There are racist police officers, but we can reform the racism out of them without ever actually addressing racism.
C) There are racist police officers, but we can reform in such a manner (without addressing racism) that will allow them to remain racist but will not allow their racism to affect their work.
D) Something else?
The closes is C, but I am not saying we don't address racism. I am saying police accountability can be implemented totally apart form addressing racism even though both should occur. I don't even understand how this is confusing.
 

tomwaits

Frontier Psychiatrist
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Messages
16,337
Reaction score
6,230
Age
45
Location
Pflugerville, TX
Offline
there is no fix to the racism problem without also addressing power imbalance
OTOH you could easily paper of the 'power' imbalance with some 'no child left behind' or 'all lives matter' type rhetoric
the libertarian urge to treat the symptom and not the disease will continue to fail
Unchecked power is a disease.
 

tomwaits

Frontier Psychiatrist
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Messages
16,337
Reaction score
6,230
Age
45
Location
Pflugerville, TX
Offline
This is why we can't have nice things.
Let me spell this out for you I guess.

Police accountability can be implemented without addressing racism.
Racism in police should be addressed also.
These 2 things can happen exclusively of one another.
Police accountability discussions have stalled because all the focus is on race.
 

brandon8283

Probably a drive-by
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Messages
7,822
Reaction score
8,951
Age
37
Offline
Let me spell this out for you I guess.
This should be fun.
Police accountability can be implemented without addressing racism.
Good idea. When I fix problems, I make sure to avoid large, extremely significant parts of the problem, too.
Racism in police should be addressed also.
Alright.
These 2 things can happen exclusively of one another.
Why would that be helpful?
Police accountability discussions have stalled because all the focus is on race.
Part of the police accountability discussion is racism in policing.
 

DaveXA

I love the Lord!
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Sep 6, 2001
Messages
35,683
Reaction score
23,756
Age
50
Location
Vienna, VA via Lafayette
Offline
Let me spell this out for you I guess.

Police accountability can be implemented without addressing racism.
Racism in police should be addressed also.
These 2 things can happen exclusively of one another.
Police accountability discussions have stalled because all the focus is on race.
I think I understand what you're getting at. You seem to be saying that Police Unions and such will never be truly reformed because they'll always continue the status quo as long as the race card is played.

You are arguing that the race card is preventing reform from happening because those resisting reforms will use the race card as an excuse not to. So the cart before the horse is racism before reforms.

I'd argue that both can be addressed at the same time. Reforms have to happen, and addressing and fixing the systemic racism has to go hand in hand with the reforms. I understand you think they can be done separately, but I don't think that's actually practical. It's not going to be either/or. Both needs to happen or neither truly gets done.
 

First Time Poster

Pro-Bowler
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
939
Reaction score
4,109
Offline
Unchecked power is a disease.
If unchecked power were truly the disease, we would all be out here experiencing the wrath of it proportionally. Period. Point blank.

If unchecked power was the issue with sexual assault, we would all be getting assaulted proportionally.

We don't. Police accountability. Who holds them accountable? What institution, that doesn't have its own white supremacy problem, holds police accountable? I never seem to get an answer to that.
 

CapitalCitySaint

99% Practice; 1% Theory
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
5,846
Reaction score
13,595
Location
The Whale’s Box
Online
Yep



Also yep, it's like some haven't been paying attention recently and fail to realize that trying to physically intervene with cops with bad intentions may not turn out to be a disaster for all involved....had that happened the murderous cop and those complicit would have likely been martyred....
This is where I am confused if you're saying you agree....

you're saying that people fail to realize that intervening with cops may NOT turn out to be a disaster for all involved.

99% of the time, messing with cops in the line of duty is going to end up bad for EVERYONE involved trying to obstruct them from carrying out their responsibilities (even if what they are doing is later to be found as an abuse of power).
 

DaveXA

I love the Lord!
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Sep 6, 2001
Messages
35,683
Reaction score
23,756
Age
50
Location
Vienna, VA via Lafayette
Offline
This is where I am confused if you're saying you agree....

you're saying that people fail to realize that intervening with cops may NOT turn out to be a disaster for all involved.

99% of the time, messing with cops in the line of duty is going to end up bad for EVERYONE involved trying to obstruct them from carrying out their responsibilities (even if what they are doing is later to be found as an abuse of power).
I suspect the not part was inadvertently inserted there.
 

DaveXA

I love the Lord!
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Sep 6, 2001
Messages
35,683
Reaction score
23,756
Age
50
Location
Vienna, VA via Lafayette
Offline
If unchecked power were truly the disease, we would all be out here experiencing the wrath of it proportionally. Period. Point blank.

If unchecked power was the issue with sexual assault, we would all be getting assaulted proportionally.

We don't. Police accountability. Who holds them accountable? What institution, that doesn't have its own white supremacy problem, holds police accountable? I never seem to get an answer to that.
I would think it's the local governments, but that's a whole other ball of wax.
 

tomwaits

Frontier Psychiatrist
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Messages
16,337
Reaction score
6,230
Age
45
Location
Pflugerville, TX
Offline
I think I understand what you're getting at. You seem to be saying that Police Unions and such will never be truly reformed because they'll always continue the status quo as long as the race card is played.

You are arguing that the race card is preventing reform from happening because those resisting reforms will use the race card as an excuse not to. So the cart before the horse is racism before reforms.

I'd argue that both can be addressed at the same time. Reforms have to happen, and addressing and fixing the systemic racism has to go hand in hand with the reforms. I understand you think they can be done separately, but I don't think that's actually practical. It's not going to be either/or. Both needs to happen or neither truly gets done.
I am not saying the race card will be used as an excuse not to reform.
I am saying we could have had a national narrative and discussion that dominated the news cycle that we need police accountability.
Instead, race took such a forefront that police accountability is almost an after-thought.

We could be talking more about ending qualified immunity, making officers have their own liability insurance, independent investigation of abuses outside of departments, and other measures, but those issues are so back burnered that they don't get traction because all people want to talk about is race.

Say we did end qualified immunity and officers did have to have liability insurance. There would be real consequences for abuse and bad officers would be weeded out. Instead, here is the police union "backing the blue". I am sure they are happy its not a national conversation about accountability and actions that can be taken to advance it.
 

Madmarsha

I default to sarcasm
VIP Contributor
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
32,306
Reaction score
44,575
Offline
James Baldwin said that white Americans are "in effect still trapped in a history which they do not understand and until they understand it, they cannot be released from it."

As a man, it would be audacious to tell women there is no correlation between rape and misogyny. Females are undeniably and overwhelmingly disproportionately victims of rape and the misogynistic culture they live in is a direct cause of why. I can't begin to fix rape without addressing misogyny.

Empathy is needed. Police reform can't happen without addressing racism. Saying they are separate issues is willingly remaining trapped in our country's history that white America continously seems to want to remain trapped in. This situation, this trial, isn't isolated. Let's not treat it as such.
I stuck to talking about the trial. Trials are about people not ideas. The issue of "racism" or "misogyny" are NEVER going to be decided in a trial. They just can't be. I also don't think they can be fixed but, again, this is about the trial.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 2, Guests: 5)

 

New Orleans Saints Twitter Feed

 

Headlines

Top Bottom