The Dereck Chauvin trial (33 Viewers)

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I don’t have much to say about this but if you heard the testimony of some of the prosecutions witnesses today and didn’t have a tear in your eye you aren’t human. Yes the man had a criminal record, yes the man had drugs in his body but he didn’t deserve to die like that. Could the drugs have killed him???? Maybe. Did he have other health conditions that could’ve killed him???? Maybe. But that cop took those decisions into his on hands and brought about an outrage in this country that’s been at the surface for a long time. God it’s time we turn to you.
 

DaveXA

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I am not saying the race card will be used as an excuse not to reform.
I am saying we could have had a national narrative and discussion that dominated the news cycle that we need police accountability.
Instead, race took such a forefront that police accountability is almost an after-thought.

We could be talking more about ending qualified immunity, making officers have their own liability insurance, independent investigation of abuses outside of departments, and other measures, but those issues are so back burnered that they don't get traction because all people want to talk about is race.

Say we did end qualified immunity and officers did have to have liability insurance. There would be real consequences for abuse and bad officers would be weeded out. Instead, here is the police union "backing the blue". I am sure they are happy its not a national conversation about accountability and actions that can be taken to advance it.
And those are legitimate issues that need to be addressed. It's been discussed before numerous times, but it seems like every time, it gets lost in the fog of other issues.

But even doing all of those things on it's own is only a half measure. But I think you agree with that. Since you're not saying race doesn't need to be an issue, but rather a matter of priority. I get it. I still think both can be addressed without drowning out each other. But that's me.
 

brandon8283

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The issue of "racism" or "misogyny" are NEVER going to be decided in a trial.
That doesn't mean they can't be part of a trial, or part of a discussion on a trial that involves race.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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I stuck to talking about the trial. Trials are about people not ideas. The issue of "racism" or "misogyny" are NEVER going to be decided in a trial. They just can't be. I also don't think they can be fixed but, again, this is about the trial.
The umpteen Mississippi Burning type trials and Stanford rape trials are unsure of your assessment
 

V Chip

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But their would still be that damning video of Chauvin maliciously putting that choke hold on Floyd face-first on the pavement and him screaming and shouting that he can't breathe that defense attorneys could have used as a way to say those cops were using excessive, disproportionate amount of force on a subdued suspect that a growing group of bystanders got fed up with and attacked them, trying to get them to stop or pull them off.

The MSM would also have to examine and discuss the same narrative of whether the patrol cops should have been using that amount of force to arrest someone even in an alternative scenario where outside intervention maybe saves Floyd's life.
No, the video would be used as evidence against the mob attacking the police and trying to stop a valid arrest. Again, in hindsight we see that Chauvin's actions were too much because Floyd died. If they rushed the cops within say 5-7 minutes and Floyd lives through it, there is no way that video looks as damning against the police as we assume it would be because we know he died. It will simply look (and be touted by the largest of the MSM channels/sources) as evidence that people hate the police and that BLM is anti-police [because you know that a group of mostly black people in an altercation with police would be labeled BLM]) like a bunch of people interfered with a simple arrest, POlice use that much force and more in arrests that don't end up in death and very few bat an eye except some "radical" people complaining about police brutality and "injecting race" where it shouldn't be.
 

V Chip

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Its not though. The thread is about a trial of a cop who murdered someone. From what I am hearing race was not mentioned in the trial. We also KNOW that police have and will kill people of any color. The issue is police accountability.

If Floyd had been low income, redneck trailer park guy with Floyd's same record and history with Chauvin, it likely would have gone the same way.
No, it would have been very, very different.
 

Dago

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Yep. I do ask myself what I would have done in that situation. I'd like to think I could have done something. But until I've been put in that exact scenario or something very similar, I really don't know what I would have done.

Sort of makes me think of the recent attack on the Asian American woman who brutally attacked and the people by the door of the building where it happened just stood there doing nothing. Makes me sick thinking about it.

The Chauvin murder was made worse because the police are supposed to be trusted public servants. Those people standing around wanted to believe that the cops would figure out they needed to get off of him when he stopped resisting (I'd argue he never really resisted like I would if cops were on top of me).

I completely understand why no one physically intervened. The real right answer is the cops allowed this to happen. I'm not really sure what the bystanders could do other than make an already terrible situation worse.
Does passing a fake $20 bill warrant pulling someone out of the vehicle, or arrest? I mean, I dunno. I would think writing a ticket and sending him on his way would make the most sense.

But then, not much about this whole thing makes sense. The only think I can come up with is Chauvin wanted to make an example of this guy.

This was just a cold blooded murder and Chauvin should spend the rest of his life in prison. He unfortunately won't though. I think he's found guilty and he'll be in prison for a while, but not long enough.
Actually, yes. It is a felony regardless of amount and is kicked up to the feds
 

V Chip

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Police accountability discussions have stalled because all the focus is on race.
Which shows exactly that race/racism and police accountability are intertwined enough that talking about both would stall discussions on either.
 

V Chip

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We could be talking more about ending qualified immunity, making officers have their own liability insurance, independent investigation of abuses outside of departments, and other measures, but those issues are so back burnered that they don't get traction because all people want to talk about is race.
But those things *were* talked about over the past year (or two, even). Anytime police reform is mentioned, there are the certain types who back the blue no matter what.

Now I get in part what you're trying to say --i.e.,because race and BLM are involved in those discussions and they revolve around police abuses of black people thus leading to a racism angle on the ensuing discussion, too many people jump to the side of the police in a defensive knee-jerk manner (the ones who would say "All Live Matter" or "Blue Lives Matter" in response to any protest where BLM appears, and those who would twist statistics to show that blacks are "inherently violent" or "more violent in interactions with police") instead of actually listening to those issues. And maybe there is a grain of truth to that. Had Floyd been white, there might have been better discussion afterwards -- but I sincerely doubt it, as police are given the benefit of the doubt in case after case after case when police brutality is alleged, and if Floyd was white there wouldn't be as much discussion about his death in the first place.
 

RKNSaint

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The murder of George Floyd is a direct outgrowth of white supremacy. White males are terrified of what they perceive as a loss of power and, as the most entitled and self-serving demographic in the country, will do anything to hold on to "their" power. The USA continues to incarcerate blacks at a higher rate than South Africa did under Apartheid.

In the aftermath of the Civil War, the entitled white planters of the south began to lose their power as their slaves and servants were freed. Union troops enforced new laws protecting freed blacks. The white planter class reacted to this by forming the KKK, which continues to this day as the Proud Boys and other white supremacist groups.

The only way whites have given up their power is when changes are mandated and power is taken from them. Derek Chauvin is a white supremacist and murdered George Floyd in accordance with white supremacist views.
Maybe. Typical far reaching and stereotype of an entire race. Fully expected position in today’s society. Each race hates the other is a more accurate position.
 

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I stuck to talking about the trial. Trials are about people not ideas. The issue of "racism" or "misogyny" are NEVER going to be decided in a trial. They just can't be. I also don't think they can be fixed but, again, this is about the trial.
Again, let's turn to one of the state's prominent witnesses, a teenager, for guidance.

“When I look at George Floyd, I look at look at my dad. I look at my brother. I look at my cousins, my uncles, because they are all Black,” Frazier said. “I have a Black father. I have a Black brother. I have Black friends. And I look at that and I look at how that could have been one of them.”

So, for you, this trial isn't about "racism." For you, this may be just about "police procedures and dumb cops" and not race. But, for so many of your fellow Americans, it most certainly is. And being that they are the demographic most likely to be terrorized by this type of policing, it falls upon those in the demographic less likely to be affected to empathize and bend a bit on their understanding.

If they are willing, that is. Anytime something bad happens, involving race, I always hear afterwards, "how do we fix this? how can we change this?" And, yet, these are the tangible moments where change can begin to take shape if those who are so certain of what is, while less affected, would consider a different possibility and perspective.

For you, this isn't about race. For you, it's just a trial. For you, a trial can't fix racism. All that is your truth. But, I guarantee that you don't face policing like I do. And all of that certainly isn't my truth. I'm glad for some Americans that this is just about this one trial. I so genuinely wish I could live in that America too.
 

MLU

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well stated OP, but i will push back a bit on the title - George Floyd is not on trial - This is the Derek Chauvin murder trial
I suppose it could also be designated the George Floyd justice trial

no it's not a semantic argument
I think someone forgot to tell the defense that...
 

MLU

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Almost certainly nothing like that today. I don't know how often they do training refreshers, but Chauvin had been on the force for quite a while. Maybe the protocols were different at that time? Certainly, I would think the training would state some limited length of time if applying a knee to the head/neck area to restrain someone. But I have no clue what it looked like then or now.
They showed video of Chauvin rolling suspects over on their side and arresting them so as to avoid cutting off their breathing. Clearly, he knew what he was doing that day. A "not guilty" plea would ignite this country, so for all of our sakes I hope the jury finds him guilty.
 

DaveXA

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They showed video of Chauvin rolling suspects over on their side and arresting them so as to avoid cutting off their breathing. Clearly, he knew what he was doing that day. A "not guilty" plea would ignite this country, so for all of our sakes I hope the jury finds him guilty.
Yeah, I haven't much of the trial, but if he's shown to treat others differently like that, I can't see how the jury would mistake this for anything other than willfully killing Floyd.
 

RKNSaint

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For some who are saying policing is biased. I don’t buy it. I guarantee you I shake in my boots just the same as everyone the moment I see a cop. I go the other way. I stay at home. I don’t go out late at night. I stay away from them. That is fact.
 

saintmdterps

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For some who are saying policing is biased. I don’t buy it. I guarantee you I shake in my boots just the same as everyone the moment I see a cop. I go the other way. I stay at home. I don’t go out late at night. I stay away from them. That is fact.
Do you fear for your life upon being pulled over by a police officer?
 

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