The Electric Vehicle (EV) discussion thread (Merged) (9 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

For people who are unwilling to compromise on anything, it's likely that EVs will never meet their expectations. I guess they will switch when forced by market forces or government fiat.

Those with a more open mind realize that EVs represent a paradigm shift in usage patterns. I put in the form of a question: "If you had to charge your smartphone at the smartphone store twice a week, waiting in line 5-10 minutes each time to charge, how would you feel about that process?"

Getting gas is essentially that process. Since it's somewhere you have to drive to specifically for the purpose of recharging, how long it takes and how long it lasts become very important factors.

But ask anyone how long it takes to charge their iPhone, or how many days does it last on a charge and you'll get: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Why is that? Because they charge their phone at home every night, overnight, and the phone lasts for a full day. That combination is all that matters on the vast majority of days.

EVs operate the same way. Charge at home. Drive during the day. Rinse and repeat.

Road trips are a bit different. Typically because of how batteries recharge, the effective road trip strategy is to stop more often for shorter charging sessions. The current target at the highest end is around 20 minutes recharging enough range to drive for a couple of extra hours.

Again, it may not work for you. And that's understandable. I usually lay out the paradigm shift because your expectations are not close to normal usage. For every one person that actually is on the road 3000 miles a week, there are 100,000 other people who putter to work and back, along with running errand, and taking a family road trip 3 times a year. EVs will work fine for those 100,000 people even if it doesn't work for you. I just hope that folks don't make the mistake of normalizing the extremes that really don't match their reality of car usage.

SFIAH

I think it just depends on the user - we don’t have to all agree all the time. For people who do a lot of long distance driving and only have one car, EV still isn’t going to work for them. That’s not a large percentage of car owners not that’s a legit position at this point.

 

[SaintFanInATLHell2019]

I think it just depends on the user - we don’t have to all agree all the time. For people who do a lot of long distance driving and only have one car, EV still isn’t going to work for them. That’s not a large percentage of car owners not that’s a legit position at this point.

I have no problem with those users except for the presentation that since it doesn't work for them in their situation, then by extension it won't work for anyone else either. Just as the post I was replying to: unless an electric car functions exactly like an ICE (400 miles range, 100% charge in 10 minutes or less), it doesn't work for them. But if we don't present the other side, other folks who really are not in that situation will start to think "Well I need those features for it to work for me too." without realizing that the true EV paradigm is so different that many of their concerns are not really relevant.

It's the same thing with charging stations. Most ICE folks think there are no charging stations because they are not looking for charging stations. Or not having a clear understanding that the charging station will be in their driveway or garage. Or thinking that they have to stand next to the charging station while it's charging just like they stand next to a gas pump.

It's not an issue of agreement. It's an issue of normalization. As we well know, if a content space is devoid of facts, then often content designed to turn people off to the idea fills that space.

Honestly, if we could get everyone in a multi car family to switch one of their cars to an EV, it would go a long way along the adoption curve. Sometimes, nothing other than experience will enlighten folks to the possibilities.

SFIAH

 

[superchuck500]

I have no problem with those users except for the presentation that since it doesn't work for them in their situation, then by extension it won't work for anyone else either. Just as the post I was replying to: unless an electric car functions exactly like an ICE (400 miles range, 100% charge in 10 minutes or less), it doesn't work for them. But if we don't present the other side, other folks who really are not in that situation will start to think "Well I need those features for it to work for me too." without realizing that the true EV paradigm is so different that many of their concerns are not really relevant.

It's the same thing with charging stations. Most ICE folks think there are no charging stations because they are not looking for charging stations. Or not having a clear understanding that the charging station will be in their driveway or garage. Or thinking that they have to stand next to the charging station while it's charging just like they stand next to a gas pump.

It's not an issue of agreement. It's an issue of normalization. As we well know, if a content space is devoid of facts, then often content designed to turn people off to the idea fills that space.

Honestly, if we could get everyone in a multi car family to switch one of their cars to an EV, it would go a long way along the adoption curve. Sometimes, nothing other than experience will enlighten folks to the possibilities.

SFIAH

I hear you but he said "not a viable option for me" and "they are unusable for me" . . . and you suggested that this was due to a lack of an open mind rather than an operational reality for him.

We don't have to convince ever person that they need an EV. And even if he's just being a sourpuss rather than actually having that operational reality, so what?

I'm with you on the sell, but I think this thread is full of the positive aspects and refutation of some of the criticism - it certainly isn't content devoid of facts. Maybe elsewhere that's a concern, but not here.

 

[Infoman]

Yeah. What Chuck said. It’s not an option for me. I don’t commute, I only travel long distances typically pulling heavy loads. And not everyone can have a handful of vehicles just to normalize to EV the use. My 2nd vehicle also has to go long distances and also pull loads as well.

Again - Until they make one that can go long distances, and put all the infrastructure in to charge them in about the time it takes to pump a tank of gas…. They are just not an option for Me.

They’d also have make one that can efficiently pull about 5 - 10k worth a trailer a lot of time too.

EVs aren’t for everyone and likely won’t be for some time.

If they ever make one that fits all my needs and lifestyle…. I’ll be glad to consider one then.

 

[SaintFanInATLHell2019]

I hear you but he said "not a viable option for me" and "they are unusable for me" . . . and you suggested that this was due to a lack of an open mind rather than an operational reality for him.

We don't have to convince ever person that they need an EV. And even if he's just being a sourpuss rather than actually having that operational reality, so what?

I'm with you on the sell, but I think this thread is full of the positive aspects and refutation of some of the criticism - it certainly isn't content devoid of facts. Maybe elsewhere that's a concern, but not here.

He's just presuming that it's an operational reality for him. It's an unknown.

I'm sorry to be reactionary. I live with an EV. I deal with folks all the time who have no real information, only their perception that EVs are different, and so by definition won't work.

There has been a ton of data collected about driving patterns. That data flies in the face of "I drive 500 miles a week." The average daily usage for passenger cars is less than 30 miles per day. The number of days the average passenger vehicle travels over 100 miles in a day out of 365 is 6.

If facts are not presented in the face of erroneous perception, then erronoeous perception wins the argument by default.

Can anyone here who actually owns an EV describe a story of a road trip where being in an EV turned out to be a major inconvenience? That would be helpful as opposed to "I don't own one, but it won't work for me."

SFIAH

 

[SaintFanInATLHell2019]

Yeah. What Chuck said. It’s not an option for me. I don’t commute, I only travel long distances typically pulling heavy loads. And not everyone can have a handful of vehicles just to normalize to EV the use.

Again - Until they make one that can go long distances and put all the infrastructure in to charge them in about the time it takes to pump a tank of gas. They are just not an option for Me.

They’d also have make one that can efficiently pull about 5 - 10k worth a trailer a lot of time too.

EVs aren’t for everyone and likely won’t be for some time.

If they ever make one that fits all my needs and lifestyle…. I’ll be glad to consider one then.

That context would have been helpful in your initial post. It's also important to point out that your situation applies to well less than 1% of the driving population. It's nowhere close to a typical usage for any vehicle.

SFIAH

 

[superchuck500]

That context would have been helpful in your initial post. It's also important to point out that your situation applies to well less than 1% of the driving population. It's nowhere close to a typical usage for any vehicle.

SFIAH

He never implied that he was talking about anyone other than himself . . . which was my original response to your post. It's not a fit for everyone yet. We can live with that, it's reality.

 

[Infoman]

That context would have been helpful in your initial post. It's also important to point out that your situation applies to well less than 1% of the driving population. It's nowhere close to a typical usage for any vehicle.

SFIAH

I don’t need to provide you with details to have a valid opinion. I said it was my personal situation.

And my situation is not unique. And certainly not representative of 1% of typical drivers. Link?

It almost represents anyone not living in a major metro area and without access to charging infrastructure beyond their home range. Or anyone that uses their vehicles as tools more so than a means of transportation.

Not everyone has a 100 mile round trip office urban commute daily and solely. And I’m sure everyone else that doesn’t is more than 1% of drivers. Lol

 

[Kegger]

Yeah. What Chuck said. It’s not an option for me. I don’t commute, I only travel long distances typically pulling heavy loads. And not everyone can have a handful of vehicles just to normalize to EV the use. My 2nd vehicle also has to go long distances and also pull loads as well.

Again - Until they make one that can go long distances, and put all the infrastructure in to charge them in about the time it takes to pump a tank of gas…. They are just not an option for Me.

They’d also have make one that can efficiently pull about 5 - 10k worth a trailer a lot of time too.

EVs aren’t for everyone and likely won’t be for some time.

If they ever make one that fits all my needs and lifestyle…. I’ll be glad to consider one then.

What if an EV had all the other features you are looking for, except the charge time was 30 minutes? How much would you be willing to bend?

 

[bclemms]

He's just presuming that it's an operational reality for him. It's an unknown.

I'm sorry to be reactionary. I live with an EV. I deal with folks all the time who have no real information, only their perception that EVs are different, and so by definition won't work.

There has been a ton of data collected about driving patterns. That data flies in the face of "I drive 500 miles a week." The average daily usage for passenger cars is less than 30 miles per day. The number of days the average passenger vehicle travels over 100 miles in a day out of 365 is 6.

If facts are not presented in the face of erroneous perception, then erronoeous perception wins the argument by default.

Can anyone here who actually owns an EV describe a story of a road trip where being in an EV turned out to be a major inconvenience? That would be helpful as opposed to "I don't own one, but it won't work for me."

SFIAH

I want an EV. I'm invested in EV companies. I drool over the being able to have incredible power, low noise, no emissions, incredible wade depths and pretty much unlimited auxillary power.

No matter how I try to justify buying an EV it simply isn't an option for what I do. There simply isn't an answer for me unless it involves using multiple vehicles and being far less efficient at what I do. I also realize that I'm not only in that small percetile, I'm in that 1 in 10k+ area. In 6 weeks I put almost 40k miles on my car driving through rural West Tx, Oklahoma panhandle, Eastern Co and the central/northern plains. Just imagine what that trip would have looked like with an EV vehicle.

I just have to keep looking at the future and waiting. Unfortunately for me, it's going to take a major battery breakthrough before EV is an option. When that happens it is going to make gas power about as competitive as steam engines are now.

If there is any presumption going on, it's likely on your end. While I understand the reactionary comment because of the people that are completely unwilling to make any changes, there are some people that would have to make incredible changes to make an EV work for them. It is up to technology to close that gap.

 

[Infoman]

What if an EV had all the other features you are looking for, except the charge time was 30 minutes? How much would you be willing to bend?

I already said, I am not against owning an EV... I said, it's not an option for the majority my driving situations.

There are situations where an extra 30 minutes added to my trip are fine, and others where it's not...

There is also no infrastructure (or rare) in place where I live that could provide a 30 minute 100% charge when I need it and where I need it (like a gas station would).... (pretty sure there are no 220v EV charging stations along the route to Tensas NWR)

I actually owned a hybrid SUV when I had smaller children - I was willing to try that... It was ok, but not worth what I had to pay for it, and our lifestyle outgrew it's capabilities quickly.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Re the two most recent posters in this thread- Infoman, i dont now your exact situation, but i can pretty much guarantee that it’s only a matter of a few years until EVs will have the range you need.. EV ranges and charging station presence have come so far in the last 5 or 10 years, and that’s only going to accelerate …. But BClemms, from what i know of you, it will probably be a while longer until EVs are practical for you.. BUT your situation, from what ive read on SR when you are literally chasing storms, is so unique that i dont think 99.5% of the US population faces the challenges you face on the road, the places you go at the drop of a hat, etc…. I think for most Americans, EVs will be a no-brainer, if they arent already…. For me personally, i dont like to buy new vehicles, i like to buy 2 or 3 yrs old, with 30k or 40k on the clock, with an extended warranty, b/c you get so much more car for your $$… so in 7 or 8 yrs from now, once we have some F150 Lightnings and Jeep EVs on the used car market, i can see myself pulling the trigger and i think by then we’ll be chuckling at anyone who has concerns about the range of an EV, it’ll be a non-factor.

 

[Infoman]

When Cummings starts making EVs... and there are real fast charging stations every ~100 miles or so (like 15 minutes "tops" fast).... I will throw my wallet at the EV sales person and scream "take my money". That's essentially what I need. And I am certainly nowhere near alone.

 

[JOMFA]

I'm not near needing to shop for a new vehicle, but maybe in a year or so. However, my office is now half a mile away from my house. On occasion, I need to travel to other hospitals or clinics, so I still drive a car (and then there's the weather) every day. That said, I've had the current vehicle for 18 months and just now have 7,000 miles on it. My conclusion is, I would be well served by getting an EV. I would still have another vehicle in the household which would likely be gas-powered and capable of going 800 miles or so for travel to see family, but for everyday use locally - an EV might be my best option. I'm currently interested in something like the Hyundai Kona SEL EV but the closest dealer selling that vehicle is over 500 miles away. I can't help but wonder if I need to wait longer before I step in to the EV market???

 

[superchuck500]

I'm not near needing to shop for a new vehicle, but maybe in a year or so. However, my office is now half a mile away from my house. On occasion, I need to travel to other hospitals or clinics, so I still drive a car (and then there's the weather) every day. That said, I've had the current vehicle for 18 months and just now have 7,000 miles on it. My conclusion is, I would be well served by getting an EV. I would still have another vehicle in the household which would likely be gas-powered and capable of going 800 miles or so for travel to see family, but for everyday use locally - an EV might be my best option. I'm currently interested in something like the Hyundai Kona SEL EV but the closest dealer selling that vehicle is over 500 miles away. I can't help but wonder if I need to wait longer before I step in to the EV market???

Your situation is optimal for EV. You will have fuel cost savings, you’ll never need stop at a gas station, and your car will need virtually zero maintenance apart from tires.