The Electric Vehicle (EV) discussion thread (Merged) (2 Viewers)

Rickboy

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Was just talking with somebody about this... What happens when we have made the shift to all EV for personal cars and people need to evacuate from a hurricane? Can imagine the thousands and thousands of cars stranded on I-75 in Florida because their charge ran out. I see this being a problem in areas along the South East and East Coast.

Do you see thousands and thousands of people stranded because they ran out of gas?
It'll be a problem for some, but not a massive issue. EVs also have an advantage in their efficiency. Many times you get stuck in bumper to bumper traffic on evacuation routes. ICE vehicles usually sit at idle, burning gas, the whole time. EVs don't have to do that. Then there is the fact that battery range continues to greatly increase as the tech gets better. We now have EVs out there with 500miles of range. As we get closer to critical mass, we're going going to see more and more like that.

IMO, the more critical issue, is charging. It needs to get faster and we need more chargers. But on the flip side, how many times have we seen gas stations run out of gas during an evacuation? EV chargers don't have that problem as long as the infrastructure is still working. Usually, before a hurricane, that's still the case.

BTW, many Tesla vehicles are have their range limited by software. Tesla has been known to unlock that extra range in disaster areas or places that are in the path of a hurricane. They've also opened up their Superchargers to make them free.

Obviously that isn't going be the case for all cars though. For instance, we know Ford isn't using software to lock out extra range.
 

SaintInBucLand

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Do you see thousands and thousands of people stranded because they ran out of gas?
It'll be a problem for some, but not a massive issue. EVs also have an advantage in their efficiency. Many times you get stuck in bumper to bumper traffic on evacuation routes. ICE vehicles usually sit at idle, burning gas, the whole time. EVs don't have to do that. Then there is the fact that battery range continues to greatly increase as the tech gets better. We now have EVs out there with 500miles of range. As we get closer to critical mass, we're going going to see more and more like that.

IMO, the more critical issue, is charging. It needs to get faster and we need more chargers. But on the flip side, how many times have we seen gas stations run out of gas during an evacuation? EV chargers don't have that problem as long as the infrastructure is still working. Usually, before a hurricane, that's still the case.

BTW, many Tesla vehicles are have their range limited by software. Tesla has been known to unlock that extra range in disaster areas or places that are in the path of a hurricane. They've also opened up their Superchargers to make them free.

Obviously that isn't going be the case for all cars though. For instance, we know Ford isn't using software to lock out extra range.

We don't know because it hasn't happened yet. I think this is just a we will see when it happens scenario. Will we have the infrastructure in place to charge thousands of EVs when the time comes to evacuate? We there be enough charging terminals along the evacuation routes so people can charge along the way? How long does a charge take? These are all real questions that need to be addressed and answered or you will have a pretty terrible situation.
 

Rickboy

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We don't know because it hasn't happened yet. I think this is just a we will see when it happens scenario. Will we have the infrastructure in place to charge thousands of EVs when the time comes to evacuate? We there be enough charging terminals along the evacuation routes so people can charge along the way? How long does a charge take? These are all real questions that need to be addressed and answered or you will have a pretty terrible situation.

Agree with much of that. But we did just pass $7billion to get a lot more charging stations built and upgrade the electrical grid. Right now, with DC fast charging, you're looking at 80% charging in ~30 minutes. That time is just going to keep going down. Tesla's new 4680 batteries are meant to be fully charged in 10 minutes, but that is going to depend on more powerful chargers. Right now, Tesla has shown that the 4680 can charge to 80% max in just 15 minutes on existing superchargers.
 

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We don't know because it hasn't happened yet. I think this is just a we will see when it happens scenario. Will we have the infrastructure in place to charge thousands of EVs when the time comes to evacuate? We there be enough charging terminals along the evacuation routes so people can charge along the way? How long does a charge take? These are all real questions that need to be addressed and answered or you will have a pretty terrible situation.
Superchargers can get you to 80% within 20-40 min.

People get stranded because they run out of gas because they sit in traffic, yet the motor/engine has to run.

According to this, a full 77kwh battery can last up to 50 hours before fully drained ( if sitting still in traffic but using AC, radio/stream etc )

 

Zztop

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yeah I don't get this hypothetical scenario. You could make the same what-if people ran out of gasoline when trying to evacuate? I think most people who have an EV will spend the extra $$ to have a rapid charger at home. Also I guess nobody reads my posts b/c on literally the previous page I posted
"currently there are 100,000 chargers and the goal is to have 500,000 by 2030"

(Also I suspect that the actual % of EV owners in Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi are very low and will be very slow adopters, so gasoline will the what the majority still uses for many years to come - If we are talking gulf region/hurricane concerns)
 
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superchuck500

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We don't know because it hasn't happened yet. I think this is just a we will see when it happens scenario. Will we have the infrastructure in place to charge thousands of EVs when the time comes to evacuate? We there be enough charging terminals along the evacuation routes so people can charge along the way? How long does a charge take? These are all real questions that need to be addressed and answered or you will have a pretty terrible situation.

Why do they all have to charge along the way? EVs don’t lose a lot of range idling - not as much as ICEs at least. But gasoline powered cars have similar concerns in the midst of an evacuation scenario. And many EVs will be charged at home (not in gas lines) and be fully charged right up until the owner evacuates.

Plus, it is going to be decades before the US fleet is dominated by EVs. This just has a sort of “if we legalize gay marriage people will marry ice cream cones” vibe about it.
 
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Was just talking with somebody about this... What happens when we have made the shift to all EV for personal cars and people need to evacuate from a hurricane? Can imagine the thousands and thousands of cars stranded on I-75 in Florida because their charge ran out. I see this being a problem in areas along the South East and East Coast.
 

DaveXA

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Was just talking with somebody about this... What happens when we have made the shift to all EV for personal cars and people need to evacuate from a hurricane? Can imagine the thousands and thousands of cars stranded on I-75 in Florida because their charge ran out. I see this being a problem in areas along the South East and East Coast.
This really isn't any different than running out of gas on the road. :shrug:
 
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superchuck500

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Also there is already technology that allows cars to charge while driving on the road.

Whether it be with new battery technology or new charging technology or both, applying existing EV dynamics decades into the future to come up with problems is silly.



 

SaintInBucLand

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This really isn't any different than running out of gas on the road. :shrug:
There are gas stations everywhere to accommodate fueling up and you can get a full tank of gas in 5-10 minutes.

I think people really have their heads in the sand if they don't see this as a problem in the future when it comes to evacuations. And you don't just sit there still and zoom and sit, you constantly poke along at 5-10mph for hundreds of miles, I know because I have had to do it a few times. So your EV isnt going to be shut off constantly because it isnt moving, it will be draining the battery. The last evacuation I made from a storm, we traveled 210 miles and it took 16 hours to go that distance.

I simply do not see the infrastructure being set up to accommodate that amount of people needing to charge their cars along the route.

Another point, not everyone is wealthy and will be able to afford the longer life batteries. So this will just end up being economic inequality in terms of people who could afford the longer lasting batteries will get to safety, but those who can't might get stuck in dangerous weather.
 

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Tesla had an idea to do that a few years back, having people to go to a tesla swap station thing... it think they had just a few pilot stations

 
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There are gas stations everywhere to accommodate fueling up and you can get a full tank of gas in 5-10 minutes.

I think people really have their heads in the sand if they don't see this as a problem in the future when it comes to evacuations. And you don't just sit there still and zoom and sit, you constantly poke along at 5-10mph for hundreds of miles, I know because I have had to do it a few times. So your EV isnt going to be shut off constantly because it isnt moving, it will be draining the battery. The last evacuation I made from a storm, we traveled 210 miles and it took 16 hours to go that distance.

I simply do not see the infrastructure being set up to accommodate that amount of people needing to charge their cars along the route.

Another point, not everyone is wealthy and will be able to afford the longer life batteries. So this will just end up being economic inequality in terms of people who could afford the longer lasting batteries will get to safety, but those who can't might get stuck in dangerous weather.

Almost every EV we're talking about here has at least 210 miles of range, some have substantially more.

Again, EVs don't lose much charge just because they're on - the power is drained by the motor making distance. In fact, an EV driven at slow speeds will have greater range than driven at 60 mph. And lastly, if you're in that situation you can set all of your regenerative options to maximum and add even more range.

So 210 miles at 10 to 15 mph is going take far less battery than a 210 mile trip at 60 mph. Range is calculated and displayed based on usual driving conditions, so an EV with a 210 mile range would likely easily exceed that range if the whole trip is at low speed.

You're making a problem that doesn't really exist - and then accusing people of being ignorant to it? :shrug:


Even the shortest-range EV can manage more than 7 hours of slogging through city traffic at an average speed of, say, 15 mph . . . a higher vehicle speed means the electric motor is spinning at a faster and less-efficient point.

 

SaintInBucLand

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Almost every EV we're talking about here has at least 210 miles of range, some have substantially more.

Again, EVs don't lose much charge just because they're on - the power is drained by the motor making distance. In fact, an EV driven at slow speeds will have greater range than driven at 60 mph. And lastly, if you're in that situation you can set all of your regenerative options to maximum and add even more range.

So 210 miles at 10 to 15 mph is going take far less battery than a 210 mile trip at 60 mph. Range is calculated and displayed based on usual driving conditions, so an EV with a 210 mile range would likely easily exceed that range if the whole trip is at low speed.

You're making a problem that doesn't really exist - and then accusing people of being ignorant to it? :shrug:





I still stand firm this is a we will see when it comes to pass. Probably before my time anyway, because like you said it's decades away.

I just don't see it playing out well, I guess you can wait 30 years to tell you I told you so, that seems to be important to people like you.
 
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Tesla had an idea to do that a few years back, having people to go to a tesla swap station thing... it think they had just a few pilot stations

I didn't know about that. Seems like a decent interim step until charge time or other methods like SC500 posted are available. I think the big issue here is American drivers getting past the ownership hurdle mentally. Plus it sounds like that was just one station and not a network. That's a very limited way to test something where the value is in long distance trips.
 

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I didn't know about that. Seems like a decent interim step until charge time or other methods like SC500 posted are available. I think the big issue here is American drivers getting past the ownership hurdle mentally. Plus it sounds like that was just one station and not a network. That's a very limited way to test something where the value is in long distance trips.

I remember thinking how neat that would be. Like instead of a 15 minute oil change, a 15 min battery swap.
But probably for one building you could have 25 charging stations (these numbers are made up, but those chargers can be spread out to cover more area vs a single location/building)
 
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I still stand firm this is a we will see when it comes to pass. Probably before my time anyway, because like you said it's decades away.

I just don't see it playing out well, I guess you can wait 30 years to tell you I told you so, that seems to be important to people like you.

lol

You throw out this doomsday scenario based on nothing other than misplaced instinct and after I give you a rational presentation of why it’s not likely, I’m the one who needs to say “told you so” in 30 years?

You still haven’t given a legitimate basis why you think this is a real problem. You have all of the basic metrics you need. Explain why you think EVs are a problem in a mass evacuation - more so than ICE cars. Lay it out based on the math, not some gut feeling you have.

I don’t need to say I told you so in 30 years because I told you so today. If you disagree, explain why using real evidence.
 

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