The Investment Thread (3 Viewers)

[efil4stnias]

Because I don’t know the plan doesn’t mean there isn’t a plan. How would you know whether there is or isn’t one? Is there some sort of deadline that you know of?

I agree that people want cheap stuff. Don’t ask how it got that cheap.... just keep feeding it to us.
Kinda pathetic

What kind of toaster do you have?

 

[You]

What kind of toaster do you have?

I’m not here to claim that I only buy American. I try to buy stuff NOT manufactured in china.
It’s very VERY hard.

 

[You]

I think when this all was sold to us publicly as "easy to win" there was likely naivety on the part of the administration towards the unintended consequences of these tit-for-tat tariffs, and an underestimation of Chinese resolve. I think they actually did believe it would be easier than this.

That's a big thing to miss on.

If it is indeed a miss....

I really don’t care who the president is, I just hope they will agree to keep up the fight against China’s trade practices.
I bet they won’t though.

They will make the promise to bring back american manufacturing though.... just like they all have. That’s only part of the issue though.

 

[superchuck500]

I think ⬆⬆ Post is an example of the hurdles we have to overcome on this issue.
There will be example after example of how the trade imbalance with china is beneficial
To us. Heck, clinton, tom delay and others said as much when they let china into the wto.
They will now have to follow the rules, they said... heh.

And it’s true that cheap stuff is great for the consumer.

Should we ignore the assault on the environment, humanity and rule of law so we can get our cheap chinese stuff?
Maybe that’s exactly what will happen

So the animus for you on the trade war is environmentalism, human rights, and the rule of law?

Those are worthy objectives indeed, but come on man - it isn't like we haven't known each other for many years. Advocate for the environment, human rights, and the rule of law don't seem very "Brown-y" to me.

They certainly aren't on Trump's objective list.

 

[bclemms]

I disagree. I think Trump actually has a very good plan with China and is trying to execute it despite a lot of friction.

For a short term economy it's a disaster. For long term national security and remaining the global superpower it's not only a good move but it's essential.

Trump's twitter plan is just a bunch of ranting.

If Trump can negotiate a fair deal with China long term, it will overshadow all the other bad. It'll probably be decades before anyone appreciates that.

If Trump fails he is wrecking the economy and puts us in a really bad position with China. He'll lose the election and there will be an incredible amount of pressure on the next president to make a deal with China that may even be worse than what we had.

 

[You]

So the animus for you on the trade war is environmentalism, human rights, and the rule of law?

Those are worthy objectives indeed, but come on man - it isn't like we haven't known each other for many years. Advocate for the environment, human rights, and the rule of law don't seem very "Brown-y" to me.

They certainly aren't on Trump's objective list.

Hey, if we could roll like they roll, we wouldn't be having this discussion but they don't have the burden of having to comply with a bunch of ideals imposed by Tree Huggers or Labor Lawyers. The point here is that the playing field is not level. They belong to the WTO which has rules and they said they'd comply if they were allowed in. But they don't. Everyone is suckered time and again by China because they don't care.

I'm actually not opposed some environmental regulations btw.

 

[efil4stnias]

I’m not here to claim that I only buy American. I try to buy stuff NOT manufactured in china.
It’s very VERY hard.

Why? They have plenty of toasters made in America. What's stopping you?

 

[superchuck500]

Hey, if we could roll like they roll, we wouldn't be having this discussion but they don't have the burden of having to comply with a bunch of ideals imposed by Tree Huggers or Labor Lawyers. The point here is that the playing field is not level. They belong to the WTO which has rules and they said they'd comply if they were allowed in. But they don't. Everyone is suckered time and again by China because they don't care.

I'm actually not opposed some environmental regulations btw.

So again, how is this tariff war going to achieve that objective? Are they gonna say “uncle!” - we will have a better Chinese EPA? China is actually a signatory to the Paris Agreement, which seems to provide a better mechanism than a trade war that is quite likely to result in recession. And actually the growth of the Chinese consumer class has enhanced the internal call for stronger regulatory control on things like labor conditions.

But none of those things is actually part of Trump’s plan.

 

[efil4stnias]

I disagree. I think Trump actually has a very good plan with China and is trying to execute it despite a lot of friction.

For a short term economy it's a disaster. For long term national security and remaining the global superpower it's not only a good move but it's essential.

Trump's twitter plan is just a bunch of ranting.

If Trump can negotiate a fair deal with China long term, it will overshadow all the other bad. It'll probably be decades before anyone appreciates that.

If Trump fails he is wrecking the economy and puts us in a really bad position with China. He'll lose the election and there will be an incredible amount of pressure on the next president to make a deal with China that may even be worse than what we had.

What is the plan? Is it simply to put pressure on them to capitulate to demands?

 

[efil4stnias]

Not to be "that guy" but we are losing investment topics and a trade war thread on PDB.

I just don't want this thread to morph into all trade war /China... There's is some good investment discussion here over the last 12 months

 

[You]

So again, how is this tariff war going to achieve that objective? Are they gonna say “uncle!” - we will have a better Chinese EPA? China is actually a signatory to the Paris Agreement, which seems to provide a better mechanism than a trade war that is quite likely to result in recession. And actually the growth of the Chinese consumer class has enhanced the internal call for stronger regulatory control on things like labor conditions.

But none of those things is actually part of Trump’s plan.

Again, I don't know. And neither do you. Or anyone on this site.

And China will sign anything you put in front of them. They'll turn around and break the rules or line out the part that makes THEM follow the rules. They'd LOVE for us to sign on because they know it'll infringe on us economically while they play catchup.

And recession is no guarantee. I'm sure it's the great hope for many but it doesn't have to happen. I think the economic impact to the average American is overblown. I've read reports that it'll impact a household bringing in 60,000/year to the tune of @ $300/year.

I just know that there are other places that can make stuff cheap and I'd expect that this current posture by the U.S could help steer manufacturing elsewhere. It'd be nice if we could bring some manufacturing back here but I think that ship has sailed for the most part.

At the least, this current posture by the U.S exposes something that's been needed for a very long time. China is breaking rules that they agreed to follow. We are the economic powerhouse and we need to confront this situation.

I'm sure there are lots of American's hoping to see this thing nosedive and send us into a recession for political reasons so we can get back to business as usual but that's a shame. I think We ought to be united on this one.

 

[You]

Not to be "that guy" but we are losing investment topics and a trade war thread on PDB.

I just don't want this thread to morph into all trade war /China... There's is some good investment discussion here over the last 12 months

I agree.

Sorry for my part in the derailment.
Interesting to note that McDermott bucked the trend today. I've been watching it but cannot figure out what's going on.

Glad to see Salesforce on the upside too. I'll thank this board for the suggestion.

 

[bclemms]

Not to be "that guy" but we are losing investment topics and a trade war thread on PDB.

I just don't want this thread to morph into all trade war /China... There's is some good investment discussion here over the last 12 months

It's Trump's fault for intertwining them.

I'll do my best to keep them separate.

 

[efil4stnias]

I agree.

Sorry for my part in the derailment.
Interesting to note that McDermott bucked the trend today. I've been watching it but cannot figure out what's going on.

Glad to see Salesforce on the upside too. I'll thank this board for the suggestion.

Not board... Superchuck500 lol he got me on them in 80s.

 

[efil4stnias]

It's Trump's fault for intertwining them.

I'll do my best to keep them separate.

No biggie... Just didn't want us to lose the investment topic. Some really good shirt up in here.