The last time a Saints #2 WR had a less productive season than Ted Ginn did this year.. (1 Viewer)

[Snakehead]

This is the critical point when eyeing up your WR2 wishlist: we don't have unlimited funds to spend at the position.

If you work with harsch's numbers ($6.6m for at least 2 WR in 2020), and then recall that FA slot receivers like Adam Humphries were going at $8-9m per year last time around, then you'll see that your options are actually much more limited.

And before you go down the backloaded contract route, remember all the contracts we have expiring next year. What you overspend on WR2 now comes back to haunt you later.

And if you want to talk 'one year, prove it deal' don't even bother replying... ?

I was going off memory from doing the research before, and it was correct with the players who were on the roster at the conclusion of the 2019. We signed a few futures contracts from the practice squad players and others so the current WRs are below.


Michael Thomas: $15,000,000
TQS $912,256
Krishawn Hogan $585,000
Deonte Harris $588,333
(Total salary of contracted WRs not named MT: $2,085,589)

Total: $17,085,589

Tommylee Lewis $735,000
Lil'Jordan Humphrey $585,000
Tim White $585,000
Maurice Harris $735,000
Emmanuel Butler $510,000

Total Futures Contracts (All can be cut before June 1 for no cap hit):
$3,150,000

Total with futures contracts: $20,235,589

 

[Loose Cannon]

Pretty similar to Alvin Harper, then. He got to 821 one time and over 5TD once (that same year). His career catch percentage was 43.4%. But what he was, was a premier deep threat that gave Irvin and Novacek space to work underneath incredibly effectively.

I could make a similar case with Devery Henderson.

In other words, it's not just about the receiving stats when you judge these kind of players.

Alvin Harper. Man, that's a name I haven't heard in forever. But he was not a very good player. He only played a few seasons in Dallas before flaming out of the league.

Early Devery is a decent comparison. People forget the ire that he got early on for drops and mental mistakes. The difference is that Devery evolved into a pretty good WR who ran most routes well, where Ginn is still the same player he was at Ohio State. Maybe worse.

 

[TribuneUK]

Alvin Harper. Man, that's a name I haven't heard in forever. But he was not a very good player. He only played a few seasons in Dallas before flaming out of the league.

Early Devery is a decent comparison. People forget the ire that he got early on for drops and mental mistakes. The difference is that Devery evolved into a pretty good WR who ran most routes well, where Ginn is still the same player he was at Ohio State. Maybe worse.

I think Harper is a good comp in that it shows a deep threat doesn't have to have the reception stats to be effective for an offense, barring a damn high yards per catch. But yeah, post-Dallas he was quickly exposed. (Although 5 years in Dallas and 8 overall is nothing to sniff at as an NFL career)

Let's be clear, I defended Ginn in 2018, based on his 2017 performance and being injured that following year, but 2019 seems to be who he is now.

 

[DoubleSaint]

I don’t necessarily think WR2 was the issue, because Cook filled that void pretty well. It was a complete lack of production from the others that held this team back.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

Alvin Harper. Man, that's a name I haven't heard in forever. But he was not a very good player. He only played a few seasons in Dallas before flaming out of the league.

Early Devery is a decent comparison. People forget the ire that he got early on for drops and mental mistakes. The difference is that Devery evolved into a pretty good WR who ran most routes well, where Ginn is still the same player he was at Ohio State. Maybe worse.

I appreciate the void he semi-filled and the 2017 season he exceeded expectations, but my biggest pet leave with Ginn was that he never adjusts and fights for the ball. I know it’s not his style and may sound picky, but sometimes you need the grapple and sometimes actually have to play defender.

This last season he looked like the player that got bounced around the league prior to landing in Carolina. It’s time to hang ‘em up.

 

[LonghornSaintsFan]

Some hit the off season harder than others.

 

[los226]

I think an addition like Shenault or Aiyuk would make a difference due to their ability to break tackles, YAC ability and speed to break away once free.

Sounds good, but if all the short and intermediate routes are clogged up, then it doesn’t matter if you have another receiver running in this area. Now, if we can upgrade the interior o-line to buy more time, then we can be deadly with so many weapons in Brees favorite area of the field. Sooner or later they will get open, but now we’re talking about upgrading the o-line and adding a wide receiver.

 

[ElGatoNegro]

Pretty similar to Alvin Harper, then. He got to 821 one time and over 5TD once (that same year). His career catch percentage was 43.4%. But what he was, was a premier deep threat that gave Irvin and Novacek space to work underneath incredibly effectively.

I could make a similar case with Devery Henderson.

In other words, it's not just about the receiving stats when you judge these kind of players.

Fair enough. The problem I have with that is that Brees can't throw deep anymore, so that aspect doesn't really work out at all.

Also, that aspect of playing WR is significantly less useful than someone that can reliably catch a ball. So while Ginn isn't horrible, he has to be considered a massive disappointment considering where he was drafted, and what he currently contributes to this offense.

 

[UFCSaint]

with the stacked WR talent this year, I expect us to take one within the first four rounds.

I hope JaJuan Jennings slips into the 3rd round.

 

[amused]

I suspected something was up with Ginn after he talked all that sheet and then didn't show up for that race . Turns out it was a trend , he didn't show up for our season either .

 

[Saint Kamara]

Nope.

I believe if we had Emanuel Sanders or perhaps even Sanu we would have very probably gotten a bye and perhaps gone deep into the playoffs. Hell just removing him from San Fran probably changes it to a W for us.

WRs usually take some time. I'd rather make a run at a vet. AJ Green if we could somehow miraculously afford him would be perfect. Sanders would be great. Randall Cobb, Robby Anderson, Brashad Perriman would all be great gets. Amendola could fit this offense really well too and he's got lots of intangibles.

Hell, even some lower tier guys like Tajae Sharpe, Philip Dorsett or Keelan Cole would be an upgrade. The corpse of Demaryious Thomas would be an upgrade. Literally any NFL WR would be an upgrade to Ted Ginn.

I don't think we even need a world beater at WR2. We just need an NFL caliber body there. Whoever the 2nd worst WR in football is, if we signed them, would instantly be a huge upgrade to Ginn.

Correct, if we had gotten Sanders, we would have beaten SF, got the #1 seed and won the Super Bowl.

Opportunity badly missed by the front office and Payton.

 

[SaintStephen1]

The problem the Saints have in getting production out of young receivers is the complexity of the offense. WRs are not usually the most intellectual of players and it takes a young one two to three years to catch on to the Payton scheme. Thomas and Colston being the notable exceptions.

 

[Stalwart385]

I was going off memory from doing the research before, and it was correct with the players who were on the roster at the conclusion of the 2019. We signed a few futures contracts from the practice squad players and others so the current WRs are below.


Michael Thomas: $15,000,000
TQS $912,256
Krishawn Hogan $585,000
Deonte Harris $588,333
(Total salary of contracted WRs not named MT: $2,085,589)

Total: $17,085,589

Tommylee Lewis $735,000
Lil'Jordan Humphrey $585,000
Tim White $585,000
Maurice Harris $735,000
Emmanuel Butler $510,000

Total Futures Contracts (All can be cut before June 1 for no cap hit):
$3,150,000

Total with futures contracts: $20,235,589

All those minimum contracts can be hard for me to worry about. The top 51 cutoff makes them just baseline costs you pay regardless. Any new contract will knock off a min contract, so they are just placeholder numbers. It's almost like every contract you sign cost 0.5 mill less or so.

 

[Snakehead]

All those minimum contracts can be hard for me to worry about. The top 51 cutoff makes them just baseline costs you pay regardless. Any new contract will knock off a min contract, so they are just placeholder numbers. It's almost like every contract you sign cost 0.5 mill less or so.

Yes, I know. The real point is MT eats up a huge % of the $ to be spent on WRs so getting another high salary WR is more than likely not going to happen. It will probably be an affordable veteran WR and at least one rookie while keeping/resigning a few of the current WRs on the roster.

 

[TribuneUK]

Fair enough. The problem I have with that is that Brees can't throw deep anymore, so that aspect doesn't really work out at all.

Also, that aspect of playing WR is significantly less useful than someone that can reliably catch a ball. So while Ginn isn't horrible, he has to be considered a massive disappointment considering where he was drafted, and what he currently contributes to this offense.

So whether Drew can still throw deep is it's own debate, you'll forgive me for not getting into that one, except to say I'm not convinced he can't quite yet.

I'm uncaring about where Ginn was drafted, Miami's idiocy is their own problem. As for his value to us, it's still the deep threat role but 2017, rather than being the trend, sadly became the outlier.

In terms of WR2 (whatever that is), a useful benchmark is the 40-49 receptions that a low end to mid tier WR2 currently catches across the league. This might be useful when setting your expectations on number of catches for whoever takes on the role.