The Mandalorian discussion thread (4 Viewers)

[Saint by the Bay]

as Jim points out, most ST disappointment seems to flow from 'what wasn't done' instead of what was done (which is another was of saying FanFict) - the impulse to broaden the scope of the story to appeal to new fans vs fanbois makes sense and is probably the correct choice - but sure, it could have been handled much better

I completely disagree here.

There are pretty much two things that all people who dislike TLJ point out:

1. The treatment of Luke
2. The seeming disconnect from the story laid out in TFA

Both of those things happened. People may have a lot of opinions about what could have been done better, but the issue starts with what happened. It's like me saying a car wreck happened because someone turned right and hit the other car, then stating she could have turned left or went straight. The issue is still with what happened, now here are the ways that could have been avoided.

Beyond that, you have a lot of other issues people have (Leia Poppins anyone?). I know people hate to admit it because it messes with their argument about what they like about TLJ, but Rian Johnson was clearly trying to subvert the norms of SW to the point of mocking them. The Kylo mask scene is one of many examples of this. He was trying to be the cool kid who thinks anything everyone else likes is stupid so he mocks it.

My 67 yo mother is no fanboi. She's a casual fan who went into TLJ with zero expectations. She's never read a single book or comic on SW and has only ever seen the movies. She has enjoyed every one, but thought there was too much politics in the PT. She really likes TFA. She HATED TLJ to the point that she wouldn't go see TROS in theaters. TLJ made her not care about the story anymore. It had that effect on a lot of more casual fans not because it didn't do what they expected, but because it was effectively an anti-Star Wars, Star Wars movie. It attacked what they loved about the series with seeming glee right from the first scene of Luke throwing his lightsaber away.

Once again, I know we will never agree on that, but it's false to claim it's some fanboi thing or the disappointment flows from what wasn't done. The disappointment is almost entirely about what was done. Casual fans tend to be the ones most negative about TLJ, and when I talk to them they don't even have any idea of what they wanted to see, just something different than what they saw. To me, the difference is between people who appreciated the subverting of SW "traditions and norms", which is fair, and the people who didn't appreciate it.

 

[boutrous]

Yeah they really went to great lengths to destroy the Jedi mythology. They made a mockery of it. Luke never reads these sacred Jedi books and then Yoda burns them up for the lulz? Lol what?

Well, Yoda didn't burn them, Rey stole them. I like to hope that Yoda burned down to tree so that Luke didn't discover Rey stole them, but who knows because the movies do a bad job at explaining anything.

 

[GeauxWhoDats]

Hey Benny, I can't wait for all of the new shows to drag out over 2021 and 2022. I need them tomorrow.

 

[boutrous]

sorry, i'm going to get a bit pedantic here - this is where media literacy comes into play (it's not just for advertising and propaganda awareness)
we see Luke beat Vader who beats Emperor
Then we see Luke in a brief flashback (15 years later, i think)
Then we meet Luke in exile (another 15 years, i think)
so people are either arguing that it's IMPOSSIBLE that he would be in this grumpy old Jedi state (which would be hard to argue from one piece of flashback evidence in a 30 year time span)
OR
that this isn't the story the prefer (probably want to see the version of Luke from Jabba's barge just 30 years older - and people had similar issues with Scared Hulk or Fat Thor)
BUT, maybe our default should be towards a bit more media/art literacy and say 'here are bits of evidence spread out over X years - let me figure out how i can connect those dots
AND
it doesn't have to be one or the other - you can keep (what you see as contradictions) in one hand while figuring out how to make it work in my mind *

* Noah Hawley's Fargo is a prime example of this - there's tons of narrative ambiguity, deus ex machina, (and probably writerly stumbles) - the 'fun' is in trying to make it all work
and i fully acknowledge that this is probably why Fargo is not more popular even though it has outstanding pedigree

It wasn't just a grumpy old Jedi state. Sure people get jaded and people change their minds, but people rarely change character. You can be grumpy, defiant even, without being ridiculously inept. He didn't fry his frontal cortex, he just shut himself off from the Force. I'm fine with connecting the dots, but I'd be surprised if anyone's literacy justifies the character Rian wrote here. Even Mark said he had to pretend he was Jake Skywalker in order to get into character. This is not a jaded, grumpy Luke. This is an old idiot... almost as if he became the character Yoda was playing when Luke first met him.

I completely disagree here.

There are pretty much two things that all people who dislike TLJ point out:

1. The treatment of Luke
2. The seeming disconnect from the story laid out in TFA

Both of those things happened. People may have a lot of opinions about what could have been done better, but the issue starts with what happened. It's like me saying a car wreck happened because someone turned right and hit the other car, then stating she could have turned left or went straight. The issue is still with what happened, now here are the ways that could have been avoided.

Beyond that, you have a lot of other issues people have (Leia Poppins anyone?). I know people hate to admit it because it messes with their argument about what they like about TLJ, but Rian Johnson was clearly trying to subvert the norms of SW to the point of mocking them. The Kylo mask scene is one of many examples of this. He was trying to be the cool kid who thinks anything everyone else likes is stupid so he mocks it.

My 67 yo mother is no fanboi. She's a casual fan who went into TLJ with zero expectations. She's never read a single book or comic on SW and has only ever seen the movies. She has enjoyed every one, but thought there was too much politics in the PT. She really likes TFA. She HATED TLJ to the point that she wouldn't go see TROS in theaters. TLJ made her not care about the story anymore. It had that effect on a lot of more casual fans not because it didn't do what they expected, but because it was effectively an anti-Star Wars, Star Wars movie. It attacked what they loved about the series with seeming glee right from the first scene of Luke throwing his lightsaber away.

Once again, I know we will never agree on that, but it's false to claim it's some fanboi thing or the disappointment flows from what wasn't done. The disappointment is almost entirely about what was done. Casual fans tend to be the ones most negative about TLJ, and when I talk to them they don't even have any idea of what they wanted to see, just something different than what they saw. To me, the difference is between people who appreciated the subverting of SW "traditions and norms", which is fair, and the people who didn't appreciate it.

There is plenty more I hated about TLJ than just those 2 things, those are just the easiest to point out. There's very few things I did like. No one talks about the treatment of BB-8, but coming out of the theater, that was one of the things that bothered me most. That and the fact Rose robbed Finn of his moment and pretty much nullified the whole reason they even left the base in those crap heap speeder things. The whole movie just constantly dumped on it's own story much less the overall Star Wars story.

 

[saint_drago]

I see and hear fanboi used as a pejorative term. What's the difference between a Star Wars fan and a Star Wars fanboi? Serious question.

 

[boutrous]

I see and hear fanboi used as a pejorative term. What's the difference between a Star Wars fan and a Star Wars fanboi? Serious question.

A fan agrees with you and a fanboi doesn't. Just like anyone who drives slower than you is an idiot and anyone who drives faster is a maniac.

Kidding... I think. Personally, I've never called anyone fanboi, but I've only ever seen it used to belittle people, which I'm not about.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I see and hear fanboi used as a pejorative term. What's the difference between a Star Wars fan and a Star Wars fanboi? Serious question.

No, that’s a fair point - it’s rhetorical laziness
I retract “fanboi’

 

[Wisco Steve]

Does anyone believe that SLJ will be back as Mace (whether in The Mando, Book of Fett or other series)?

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

OK - i think that's enough TLJ talk... because I think we all agree that the Mandalorian has nailed it, and has been desperately needed in the Star Wars community.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

 

[Sun Wukong]

Does anyone believe that SLJ will be back as Mace (whether in The Mando, Book of Fett or other series)?

No. I know "Mace Survived!" has long been a theory but there's no real narrative reason for him to come back. He's dead.

But since we're all about adapting animated characters to live action now, and since Book of Boba Fett is shaping up to be an underworld kind of show, I must make a formal request that Hondo Ohnaka shows up.

 

[Booker]

This...

... but Rian Johnson was clearly trying to subvert the norms of SW to the point of mocking them.

...and this...

TLJ made her not care about the story anymore. It had that effect on a lot of more casual fans not because it didn't do what they expected, but because it was effectively an anti-Star Wars, Star Wars movie. It attacked what they loved about the series with seeming glee right from the first scene...

I walked out of TFA feeling like a kid again. TLJ left me so cold it made me feel stupid for caring or investing in Star Wars, which served me well for RoS -- garbage in, garbage out.

But like forking crack, The Mandalorian brought me it back. Watching Asohka come to life and then the finale with Luke, it's been such a rewarding experience I've literally had tears in my eyes watching those episodes.
-------------------------

OK - i think that's enough TLJ talk... because I think we all agree that the Mandalorian has nailed it, and has been desperately needed in the Star Wars community.

I was typing that while you posted, but point taken ...

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

If anyone thinks the imperial security system that just required a face is not realistic, I think they should read up on the real life Solar Winds hack going on. Humans are pretty bad at security.

 

[Wisco Steve]

No. I know "Mace Survived!" has long been a theory but there's no real narrative reason for him to come back. He's dead.

But since we're all about adapting animated characters to live action now, and since Book of Boba Fett is shaping up to be an underworld kind of show, I must make a formal request that Hondo Ohnaka shows up.

Yeah I hear ya, and I do not have the comprehensive knowledge that you do about this stuff...but seems like they could explore a bunch more about him relating to the fall of the Jedi, his own brash behavior led to a lot of what happened? Plus the fact that he killed Jengo Fett might set him up as a decent antagonist in Book of Boba? I know they might be treading too deeply into the recycling character stuff though too?
Fully agree on Hondo, that would be really cool and open up a lot of fun pathways.

 

[GeauxWhoDats]

Favreau also confirmed that Book of Boba Fett is NOT Mandalorian season 3. There had been some confusion on that. It's a separate show. They'll do Book of Boba Fett first then go into Mando season 3. But that also means we're probably not getting Mando season 3 till early 2022.

Just saw this.

Mandalorian creator Jon Favreau reveals season 3 release date is after The Book of Boba Fett

The Mandalorian season 3 is going into pre-production as The Book of Boba Fett enters production

www.yahoo.com

So, it appears that we will get no Mandalorian in 2021, just Boba Fett, with Din Djarin returning early in 2022.