The Mandalorian discussion thread (7 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

With the prequels, I've always thought that they could be improved simply with better editing and direction. The story is there, it just needs less clutter and better pacing to tighten up the story telling. Call it a "less is more" approach -- cut out the bad dialogue and any unnecessary scenes and it allows the good stuff to stand out more, addition by subtraction.

But to your point, with the sequels there's no tangible, coherent story to tighten up and salvage. It's just a mess. They had the original cast, they had an unlimited budget, they had all the expanded universe to draw ideas from. And what we ultimately got was a remake of Episode IV, Spaceballs II, and a completely ad hoc conclusion. What a waste.

Yeah, I'll always wonder who was ultimately responsible for that mess. I mean who was the visionary (or total lack thereof) most culpable?

Whoever it was has got to find another project far, far away from the SW franchise.

 

[SaintsBrazil]

Yeah, I'll always wonder who was ultimately responsible for that mess. I mean who was the visionary (or total lack thereof) most culpable?

Whoever it was has got to find another project far, far away from the SW franchise.

Kathleen Kennedy

 

[SaintsBrazil]

Just imagine what we would have gotten if Dave Filoni and John Favreau had been given the trilogy.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

Just imagine what we would have gotten if Dave Filoni and John Favreau had been given the trilogy.

We probably wouldn't have the Mandalorian then but we would have an awesome trilogy.

 

[Torgo]

Kathleen Kennedy

This.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

This.

She is NOT the way.

 

[DaveXA]

Kathleen Kennedy

She's probably the name i hear the most. Was it her decision to switch directors for the second movie? If she did, why did she do it? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to change gears so much from the first to the second i would think.

 

[boutrous]

She's probably the name i hear the most. Was it her decision to switch directors for the second movie? If she did, why did she do it? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to change gears so much from the first to the second i would think.

A change in directors isn't always a bad thing had there been a guiding overarching story outline for them to follow. The MCU did it with the Avengers movies, but Feige kept a watchful eye on the plot points that joined the movies together. Even when they teamed up with Sony for Spiderman did they create a coherent story, and that was a whole other studio. So.... in brief... it's all Kathleen Kennedy's fault. She should have had JJ Abrahams craft a 3 movie story arch outline from the beginning and hold Rian Johnson accountable for delivering on that outline before he even started shooting.

I too have reevaluated the prequels, and as much as I hate them, there was at least a 3 part story to be told. The story could still be cleaned up and made more clear and simple as was the story of the original trilogy, but it did all connect. The sequels are just a mess.

 

[Sun Wukong]

Kathleen Kennedy

Now that it's all been post-mortemed both officially and unofficially, it's clear that there was a perfect storm of issues. Bob Iger mandating a movie a year to try and replicate Marvel's model put too much stress on the studio. The sequel trilogy's movies only had two years between them, where Lucas always had 3 between his. This led to crunched production cycles and Kennedy trying to get extensions and Iger refusing. Abrams was vocal that Rise of Skywalker needed another six months they never got, and they were forced to edit on the fly. Probably wouldn't have helped, but the rushed and slapdash production schedule is 100% obvious in that movie. For his part, Iger has owned up to this and said that it was a mistake to take the approach he did.

For Kennedy's part, she was way too hands off and let Abrams and Johnson do whatever they wanted with the story, even if it contradicted established canon (Abrams in particular developed a reputation for bucking the story group. One example was him just deciding that Poe had a history as a spice smuggler, despite Poe's pretty well covered official history in other media never so much as hinting at that kind of thing.) You can't produce a coherent trilogy with multiple parts being produced independent of one another with only the loosest possible connective tissue, or without someone being the shepherd of the whole project. They started the trilogy with no overarching plan in place and in the end it showed. Johnson crowed all throughout production that it was the most freedom he'd ever had on a project, which is great in theory, but not so much in practice. Do you think Kevin Feige hires someone to make a movie and says "Hey, great, do whatever the fork you want."? Not so much. Franchises require a guiding hand, but Kennedy didn't do that and the ST suffered for it.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

A change in directors isn't always a bad thing had there been a guiding overarching story outline for them to follow. The MCU did it with the Avengers movies, but Feige kept a watchful eye on the plot points that joined the movies together. Even when they teamed up with Sony for Spiderman did they create a coherent story, and that was a whole other studio. So.... in brief... it's all Kathleen Kennedy's fault. She should have had JJ Abrahams craft a 3 movie story arch outline from the beginning and hold Rian Johnson accountable for delivering on that outline before he even started shooting.

I too have reevaluated the prequels, and as much as I hate them, there was at least a 3 part story to be told. The story could still be cleaned up and made more clear and simple as was the story of the original trilogy, but it did all connect.

I'm pretty sure he had a rough outline for what he wanted the other two movies to be. I believe he had said that Rian Johnson didn't use any of his ideas and went his own way. So besides Kathleen I blame Rian. He completely ruined any chance at a 3 movie arc.

 

[boutrous]

I'm pretty sure he had a rough outline for what he wanted the other two movies to be. I believe he had said that Rian Johnson didn't use any of his ideas and went his own way. So besides Kathleen I blame Rian. He completely ruined any chance at a 3 movie arc.

Agreed, but Kennedy was his boss, although it does make sense that if Iger wasn't flexable, she had no time to rein Johnson in.

 

[Sun Wukong]

I'm pretty sure he had a rough outline for what he wanted the other two movies to be. I believe he had said that Rian Johnson didn't use any of his ideas and went his own way. So besides Kathleen I blame Rian. He completely ruined any chance at a 3 movie arc.

As bad as Rise of Skywalker is, I have trouble believing any movie could have wrapped things up after what he did in The Last Jedi. Before the movie released, I remember him "bragging" in interviews about the "mess" he'd left Colin Trevorrow (then scheduled to direct ep. IX) to clean up. That's...not the approach one should take to crafting the second act of a trilogy. "Yeah, I busted this sheet up real good. Next guy's got his work cut out for him."

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

As bad as Rise of Skywalker is, I have trouble believing any movie could have wrapped things up after what he did in The Last Jedi. Before the movie released, I remember him "bragging" in interviews about the "mess" he'd left Colin Trevorrow (then scheduled to direct ep. IX) to clean up. That's...not the approach one should take to crafting the second act of a trilogy. "Yeah, I busted this sheet up real good. Next guy's got his work cut out for him."

That makes me not like him even more and it almost sounds like he messed up the trilogy on purpose.

 

[DaveXA]

Now that it's all been post-mortemed both officially and unofficially, it's clear that there was a perfect storm of issues. Bob Iger mandating a movie a year to try and replicate Marvel's model put too much stress on the studio. The sequel trilogy's movies only had two years between them, where Lucas always had 3 between his. This led to crunched production cycles and Kennedy trying to get extensions and Iger refusing. Abrams was vocal that Rise of Skywalker needed another six months they never got, and they were forced to edit on the fly. Probably wouldn't have helped, but the rushed and slapdash production schedule is 100% obvious in that movie. For his part, Iger has owned up to this and said that it was a mistake to take the approach he did.

For Kennedy's part, she was way too hands off and let Abrams and Johnson do whatever they wanted with the story, even if it contradicted established canon (Abrams in particular developed a reputation for bucking the story group. One example was him just deciding that Poe had a history as a spice smuggler, despite Poe's pretty well covered official history in other media never so much as hinting at that kind of thing. You can't produce a coherent trilogy with multiple parts being produced independent of one another with only the loosest possible connective tissue, or without someone being the shepherd of the whole project. They started the trilogy with no overarching plan in place and in the end it showed. Johnson crowed all throughout production that it was the most freedom he'd ever had on a project, which is great in theory, but not so much in practice. Do you think Kevin Feige hires someone to make a movie and says "Hey, great, do whatever the fork you want."? Not so much. Franchises require a guiding hand, but Kennedy didn't do that and the ST suffered for it.

Thanks. That answers some questions I had about the process. It just seems to me Kennedy should have known that Johnson would basically go rogue. I mean, I would assume she met with both of them before hiring them and sort of going over expectations before starting the first movie. That just baffles me.

The production schedule crunch makes sense. I don't mind waiting an extra 6 months or even a year or two if it leads to a much better movie. There are enough entertainment options that we can wait 2-3 years between movies. Not everyone can be Marvel/Feige. Nor do they need to be imo. And I love all things Marvel.

 

[DaveXA]

As bad as Rise of Skywalker is, I have trouble believing any movie could have wrapped things up after what he did in The Last Jedi. Before the movie released, I remember him "bragging" in interviews about the "mess" he'd left Colin Trevorrow (then scheduled to direct ep. IX) to clean up. That's...not the approach one should take to crafting the second act of a trilogy. "Yeah, I busted this sheet up real good. Next guy's got his work cut out for him."

Rian sounds like a grade A butt crevasse for doing that. Smh.