The offensive formations are a problem. (1 Viewer)

[FatCitySaint]

So you are saying instead of fixing a broken defense, hide it! Problem solved.

How are you going to fix it this year? I am sure/hope they will get better as the season continues, but this D with these players is not going to be good this season.

 

[FatCitySaint]

we did.

for 98 yd TD

what else ya got?

Yeah I saw that and it worked huh....Hmmmmm. Be nice to see it when we aren't on our own 1 yard line as well....ya know?

 

[zigzag]

You take what the other team allows. It's not rocket science. We averaged 4 yards a carry. They could not cover our WR or backs. We run the west coast offense which is pass heavy on short routes, screen then take shots over the top. The west coast offense that was created by Bill Walsh used the short pass as an extension of the run.


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people on here say we run west coast offense, but most of our offense is air coryell. we use some WCO principles, but the TE, seam routes are air coryell.


The Coryell offense is based on Sid Gillman's offense that required the defense to defend the entire field.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-jaworski2010p80_4-1">[4]</sup> The passing game was based on timing and rhythm, and coaching the system required a lot of repetition.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-jaworski2010p87_10-0">[10]</sup> Coryell expanded on those principles by putting receivers in motion. With the new defensive rules limiting contact to near the line of scrimmage, receivers in motion would be virtually impossible to jam. Coryell not only placed wide receivers in motion, he did so with tight ends and running backs as well. Putting the players in motion also had the advantage of allowing the quarterback to determine pre-snap if the defense would be playing zone or man-to-man defense.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-jaworski2010p80_4-2">[4]</sup> It was easier to read the coverage before the snap than afterwards due to the pass rush.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-jaworski2010p87_10-1">[10]</sup> It is also harder for a defender to cover if he has to change direction with the receiver instead of squaring up and getting set before a play. Defenses that react to the motion could get confused, leaving a defender in the wrong position.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-11">[11]

</sup>
Head coach Bill Belichick notes that the pass-catching tight ends that get paid the most money are "all direct descendants of Kellen Winslow" and there are fewer tight ends now that can block on the line

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Coryell
NFL teams that used the West Coast offense[edit]

<table class="wikitable sortable jquery-tablesorter"><thead><tr><th tabindex="0" title="Sort ascending" class="headerSort" role="columnheader button">Start</th><th tabindex="0" title="Sort ascending" class="headerSort" role="columnheader button">End</th><th tabindex="0" title="Sort ascending" class="headerSort" role="columnheader button">Team</th><th tabindex="0" title="Sort ascending" class="headerSort" role="columnheader button">Head coach</th><th tabindex="0" title="Sort ascending" class="headerSort" role="columnheader button">Offensive coordinator</th></tr></thead><tbody><tr><td>1979</td><td>1988</td><td>San Francisco 49ers</td><td>Bill Walsh</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>1984</td><td>1991</td><td>Cincinnati Bengals</td><td>Sam Wyche</td><td>Bruce Coslet</td></tr><tr><td>1988</td><td>&#8212;</td><td>Los Angeles Raiders</td><td>Mike Shanahan</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>1989</td><td>&#8212;</td><td>Cleveland Browns</td><td>Bud Carson</td><td>Marc Trestman</td></tr><tr><td>1989</td><td>1996</td><td>San Francisco 49ers</td><td>George Seifert</td><td>Mike Holmgren, Mike Shanahan, and Marc Trestman</td></tr><tr><td>1990</td><td>1993</td><td>New York Jets</td><td>Bruce Coslet</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>1992</td><td>1998</td><td>Green Bay Packers</td><td>Mike Holmgren</td><td>Sherman Lewis</td></tr><tr><td>1992</td><td>2000</td><td>Minnesota Vikings</td><td>Dennis Green</td><td>Jack Burns, Brian Billick, Ray Sherman, and Sherman Lewis</td></tr><tr><td>1992</td><td>1995</td><td>Tampa Bay Buccaneers</td><td>Sam Wyche</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>1993</td><td>1996</td><td>Chicago Bears</td><td>Dave Wannstedt</td><td>Ron Turner</td></tr><tr><td>1993</td><td>1994</td><td>Denver Broncos</td><td>Wade Phillips</td><td>Jim Fassel</td></tr><tr><td>1993</td><td>1997</td><td>Kansas City Chiefs</td><td>Marty Schottenheimer</td><td>Paul Hackett</td></tr><tr><td>1995</td><td>2008</td><td>Denver Broncos</td><td>Mike Shanahan</td><td>Gary Kubiak and Rick Dennison</td></tr><tr><td>1995</td><td>1997</td><td>Philadelphia Eagles</td><td>Ray Rhodes</td><td>Jon Gruden</td></tr><tr><td>1996</td><td>&#8212;</td><td>Arizona Cardinals</td><td>Vince Tobin</td><td>Jim Fassel</td></tr><tr><td>1997</td><td>1999</td><td>Cincinnati Bengals</td><td>Bruce Coslet</td><td>Ken Anderson</td></tr><tr><td>1997</td><td>2003</td><td>New York Giants</td><td>Jim Fassel</td><td>Jim Skipper and Sean Payton</td></tr><tr><td>1997</td><td>2002</td><td>San Francisco 49ers</td><td>Steve Mariucci</td><td>Marty Mornhinweg and Greg Knapp</td></tr><tr><td>1998</td><td>2000</td><td>Arizona Cardinals</td><td>Vince Tobin</td><td>Marc Trestman</td></tr><tr><td>1998</td><td>&#8212;</td><td>Carolina Panthers</td><td>Dom Capers</td><td>Gil Haskell</td></tr><tr><td>1998</td><td>2001</td><td>Oakland Raiders</td><td>Jon Gruden</td><td>Bill Callahan</td></tr><tr><td>1999</td><td>2007</td><td>Baltimore Ravens</td><td>Brian Billick</td><td>Matt Cavanaugh, Jim Fassel, and Rick Neuheisel</td></tr><tr><td>1999</td><td>&#8212;</td><td>Carolina Panthers</td><td>George Seifert</td><td>Gil Haskell</td></tr><tr><td>1999</td><td>2012</td><td>Philadelphia Eagles</td><td>Andy Reid</td><td>Rod Dowhower, Brad Childress and Marty Mornhinweg</td></tr><tr><td>1999</td><td>2008</td><td>Seattle Seahawks</td><td>Mike Holmgren</td><td>Mike Sherman and Gil Haskell</td></tr><tr><td>2000</td><td>2005</td><td>Green Bay Packers</td><td>Mike Sherman</td><td>Tom Rossley</td></tr><tr><td>2000</td><td>2004</td><td>New Orleans Saints</td><td>Jim Haslett</td><td>Mike McCarthy</td></tr><tr><td>2000</td><td>2010</td><td>Tennessee Titans</td><td>Jeff Fisher</td><td>Mike Heimerdinger and Norm Chow</td></tr><tr><td>2001</td><td>2002</td><td>Detroit Lions</td><td>Marty Mornhinweg</td><td>Maurice Carthon</td></tr><tr><td>2001</td><td>2005</td><td>New York Jets</td><td>Herman Edwards</td><td>Paul Hackett and Mike Heimerdinger</td></tr><tr><td>2002</td><td>&#8212;</td><td>Dallas Cowboys</td><td>Dave Campo</td><td>Bruce Coslet</td></tr><tr><td>2002</td><td>2003</td><td>Oakland Raiders</td><td>Bill Callahan</td><td>Marc Trestman</td></tr><tr><td>2002</td><td>2008</td><td>Tampa Bay Buccaneers</td><td>Jon Gruden</td><td>Bill Muir</td></tr><tr><td>2003</td><td>2005</td><td>Detroit Lions</td><td>Steve Mariucci</td><td>Sherman Lewis, Greg Olson, and Ted Tollner</td></tr><tr><td>2003</td><td>2004</td><td>Jacksonville Jaguars</td><td>Jack Del Rio</td><td>Bill Musgrave</td></tr><tr><td>2004</td><td>2006</td><td>Arizona Cardinals</td><td>Dennis Green</td><td>Alex Wood, Keith Rowen, and Mike Kruczek</td></tr><tr><td>2004</td><td>2006</td><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td>Jim L. Mora</td><td>Greg Knapp</td></tr><tr><td>2005</td><td>2009</td><td>Chicago Bears</td><td>Lovie Smith</td><td>Ron Turner</td></tr><tr><td>2005</td><td>&#8212;</td><td>San Francisco 49ers</td><td>Mike Nolan</td><td>Mike McCarthy</td></tr><tr><td>2006</td><td>present</td><td>Green Bay Packers</td><td>Mike McCarthy</td><td>Jeff Jagodzinski, Joe Philbin, Tom Clements, and Edgar Bennett</td></tr><tr><td>2006</td><td>2013</td><td>Houston Texans</td><td>Gary Kubiak</td><td>Troy Calhoun, Mike Sherman, Kyle Shanahan, and Rick Dennison</td></tr><tr><td>2006</td><td>2007</td><td>Kansas City Chiefs</td><td>Herman Edwards</td><td>Mike Solari</td></tr><tr><td>2006</td><td>2010</td><td>Minnesota Vikings</td><td>Brad Childress</td><td>Darrell Bevell</td></tr><tr><td>2007</td><td>&#8212;</td><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td>Bobby Petrino</td><td>Hue Jackson</td></tr><tr><td>2007</td><td>2008</td><td>Oakland Raiders</td><td>Lane Kiffin</td><td>Greg Knapp</td></tr><tr><td>2007</td><td>&#8212;</td><td>San Francisco 49ers</td><td>Mike Nolan</td><td>Jim Hostler</td></tr><tr><td>2008</td><td>2009</td><td>Buffalo Bills</td><td>Dick Jauron</td><td>Turk Schonert and Alex Van Pelt</td></tr><tr><td>2008</td><td>&#8212;</td><td>Detroit Lions</td><td>Rod Marinelli</td><td>Jim Colletto</td></tr><tr><td>2008</td><td>2010</td><td>Oakland Raiders</td><td>Tom Cable</td><td>Greg Knapp and Hue Jackson</td></tr><tr><td>2008</td><td>2009</td><td>Washington Redskins</td><td>Jim Zorn</td><td>Sherman Smith</td></tr><tr><td>2009</td><td>2010</td><td>St. Louis Rams</td><td>Steve Spagnuolo</td><td>Pat Shurmur</td></tr><tr><td>2009</td><td>&#8212;</td><td>Seattle Seahawks</td><td>Jim L. Mora</td><td>Greg Knapp</td></tr><tr><td>2009</td><td>2011</td><td>Tampa Bay Buccaneers</td><td>Raheem Morris</td><td>Greg Olson</td></tr><tr><td>2010</td><td>present</td><td>Seattle Seahawks</td><td>Pete Carroll</td><td>Jeremy Bates and Darrell Bevell</td></tr><tr><td>2010</td><td>2013</td><td>Washington Redskins</td><td>Mike Shanahan</td><td>Kyle Shanahan</td></tr><tr><td>2011</td><td>present</td><td>Cincinnati Bengals</td><td>Marvin Lewis</td><td>Jay Gruden and Hue Jackson</td></tr><tr><td>2011</td><td>2012</td><td>Cleveland Browns</td><td>Pat Shurmur</td><td>Brad Childress</td></tr><tr><td>2011</td><td>2012</td><td>Denver Broncos</td><td>John Fox</td><td>Mike McCoy</td></tr><tr><td>2011</td><td>2013</td><td>Minnesota Vikings</td><td>Leslie Frazier</td><td>Bill Musgrave</td></tr><tr><td>2011</td><td>&#8212;</td><td>Oakland Raiders</td><td>Hue Jackson</td><td>Al Saunders</td></tr><tr><td>2011</td><td>2014</td><td>San Francisco 49ers</td><td>Jim Harbaugh</td><td>Greg Roman</td></tr><tr><td>2012</td><td>2013</td><td>Miami Dolphins</td><td>Joe Philbin</td><td>Mike Sherman</td></tr><tr><td>2012</td><td>2014</td><td>Oakland Raiders</td><td>Dennis Allen</td><td>Greg Knapp and Greg Olson</td></tr><tr><td>2013</td><td>2014</td><td>Chicago Bears</td><td>Marc Trestman</td><td>Aaron Kromer</td></tr><tr><td>2013</td><td>2014</td><td>New York Jets</td><td>Rex Ryan</td><td>Marty Mornhinweg</td></tr><tr><td>2014</td><td>&#8212;</td><td>Oakland Raiders</td><td>Tony Sparano</td><td>Greg Olson</td></tr><tr><td>2014</td><td>2015</td><td>Cleveland Browns</td><td>Mike Pettine</td><td>Kyle Shanahan and John DeFilippo</td></tr><tr><td>2014</td><td>2015</td><td>New York Giants</td><td>Tom Coughlin</td><td>Ben McAdoo</td></tr><tr><td>2015</td><td>&#8212;</td><td>San Francisco 49ers</td><td>Jim Tomsula</td><td>Geep Chryst</td></tr><tr><td>2013</td><td>present</td><td>Indianapolis Colts</td><td>Chuck Pagano</td><td>Pep Hamilton and Rob Chudzinski</td></tr><tr><td>2013</td><td>present</td><td>Jacksonville Jaguars</td><td>Gus Bradley</td><td>Jedd Fisch and Greg Olson</td></tr><tr><td>2013</td><td>present</td><td>Kansas City Chiefs</td><td>Andy Reid</td><td>Doug Pederson</td></tr><tr><td>2014</td><td>present</td><td>Baltimore Ravens</td><td>John Harbaugh</td><td>Gary Kubiak and Marc Trestman</td></tr><tr><td>2014</td><td>present</td><td>Washington Redskins</td><td>Jay Gruden</td><td>Sean McVay</td></tr><tr><td>2015</td><td>present</td><td>Atlanta Falcons</td><td>Dan Quinn</td><td>Kyle Shanahan</td></tr><tr><td>2015</td><td>present</td><td>Buffalo Bills</td><td>Rex Ryan</td><td>Greg Roman</td></tr><tr><td>2015</td><td>present</td><td>Denver Broncos</td><td>Gary Kubiak</td><td>Rick Dennison</td></tr><tr><td>2015</td><td>present</td><td>Oakland Raiders</td><td>Jack Del Rio</td><td>Bill Musgrave</td></tr></tbody><tfoot></tfoot></table>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_offense

 

[FootballLady]

How in the world can you expect to have any element of surprise when you constantly run no back sets, then when you do run a set with RB's in the backfield you run it 99% of the time?

This was really infuriating me during the whole game. I mean what chance does our running game have when they know exactly when we are running it?

Would it be so wrong to pass out of the I or strong set every now and again?

We scored 34 points. You are focused on the wrong thing.

 

[flyguy8558]

Personally, I miss our two back sets. Remember with Deuce and Reggie Bush.. I always wondered why Payton abandoned that especially with two dynamic backs in Spiller and Ingram.

EDIT: Still puzzled about Spiller not even suiting up. Has to more than Cadet being more involved in the game plan. What about the Raiders makes Cadet more valuable than Spiller. Some would argue that Spiller is the better pass catching back.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

I not sure if some of the people here that are taking about the run game burning more clock realize that a compete pass keeps the clock ruining just like a run.
so if we ran 10 more times, and threw 10 less times, your looking at a difference of about 3 more times the clock stops(since drew was about 70%), which probably would have been the difference in us not having the chance for the fieldgoal at the end.

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[DABOOT162]

Look dude, you can come in all these threads and try and water it all down, but if you know football you know we need balance. That is what I am talking about.

we have an all or nothing offense and when it works we put up yards and a lot of times , like today, we still lose. If we had been more balanced when we built that lead and controlled the ball we win and we win big.

We keep throwing it 40-50 times a game we will not be a winning ball club. We won't have a run game either because the other team see's a back in the backfield and they know we are running.

We have had a top five offense for the last decade. Come on man... you can do better?? Seriously???


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[FatCitySaint]

Well I hope we can throw for 400+ yards and 4 TD's every week or we are in trouble. If Drew manages 400+ yards and 4 TD's every week, he's looking at one hell of a year.

 

[SaintTiger]

How in the world can you expect to have any element of surprise when you constantly run no back sets, then when you do run a set with RB's in the backfield you run it 99% of the time?

This was really infuriating me during the whole game. I mean what chance does our running game have when they know exactly when we are running it?

Would it be so wrong to pass out of the I or strong set every now and again?

Did you really just post this after our offense ran up and down the field like a well oiled machine? I'll be nice and just say 'wow'. I understand predict ability but come on our offense was awesome so why the hell whine about that??

 

[FatCitySaint]

Did you really just post this after our offense ran up and down the field like a well oiled machine? I'll be nice and just say 'wow'. I understand predict ability but come on our offense was awesome so why the hell whine about that??

Did you really just post your post after 12 others have said the same thing?

 

[VPCajun]

Not necessarily. A pass play can chew up clock just like a run play can, assuming the pass is completed and the receiver stays in bounds. On the other end of the spectrum, a run play can stop the clock if the runner goes out of bounds.

.

Yeah, and a Receiver can go OB as well, not to mention an Incomplete stops the clock, too...

.

 

[SweetT]

Here's what the OP is trying to say:

If there were more "deception" to our formations, then we would score anywhere from 41-99 points a game. Almost ensuring a victory every Sunday.........unless our opponent scores more than we do. Then, we would review the tape, clean some stuff up, and come up with a game plan for the following week.

 

[Saint Brees]

That worthless Saints defense gave up 22 points in the 4th quarter and has cost us several seasons and you blame offensive formations.

 

[JBryan314]

If the Offense would have scored 3 more points, we would have won.

If the Defense had stopped 1 drive that ended in a FG, we would have won.

If our offense would have ran off 10 seconds more per drive, we would have won.

If our kicker hadn't missed a makeable FG, we would have won.

So things aren't really that bad.

If your defense hadn't coughed up 22 points in the fourth quarter...

 

[dtc]

How in the world can you expect to have any element of surprise when you constantly run no back sets, then when you do run a set with RB's in the backfield you run it 99% of the time?

This was really infuriating me during the whole game. I mean what chance does our running game have when they know exactly when we are running it?

Would it be so wrong to pass out of the I or strong set every now and again?

You know that 98 yard TD pass that set Saints records?

how about that one?