The problem of White Supremacy - Spinoff from Buffalo Shooting thread (1 Viewer)

[MLU]

The #1 problem is sheetty parenting.

Why were their parents so bad at raising their kids?

 

[Semper]

Some politicians and activists of late have made accusations that teaching about race and inclusion in school is divisive, or a way to indoctrinate students.

However, the growing threat of white supremacist extremism in the U.S. has left education advocates increasingly worried about those Republican-led efforts.

Now, a mass shooting allegedly by a self-proclaimed white supremacist targeting a predominantly Black neighborhood in Buffalo, New York, has sparked fears about banning race education in schools, advocates who spoke with ABC News said.

Research shows that children become aware of race and racial inequality at a young age and may develop racial biases by ages 3 to 5.

Studies, including those from award-winning social-developmental psychologist Phyllis A. Katz, have long shown that children engaged in honest and frequent conversations about race, racial inequity, and racism, lead to lower levels of bias in young children.

Children take cues from what they see around them, so avoiding conversations about race and inequality only allows for “prevalent stereotypes [to] remain unchanged,” Katz's research states.

Katheleen Belew, a historian who specializes in the white power movement, testified before Congress in 2019 to recommend education as a solution to acknowledging extremism as a nation.

"Truly grappling with white power violence would involve a long look at the racial inequality foundational to many American communities," said Belew.

Experts on radicalism in the U.S., like Michael Edison Hayden, a senior investigative reporter at the Southern Poverty Law Center, suggest that education can be an essential tool against racism in different ways.

"Every person needs to be aware of these huge racial injustices that have existed throughout American history," Hayden said. "You cannot possibly understand what the people in Buffalo feel right now -- Black people in general -- feel without understanding the history of racist violence in this country."

However, Hayden warns that only portraying white people as antagonists could "keep this cycle [of division] going in our culture."

Primarily, he recommends federal agencies fund programs that support the early intervention of radicalization and inoculate communities against extremism, by promoting media literacy, mental health resources and other such programs.

"You have people pushing back against education at this very moment when it's needed more than ever before," he said............

The anti-race education movement has been firing up school board meetings, midterm primary races and conservative media most intensely within the last two years. It's led to heated debates about whether children are being taught about the long history of racial oppression and the fight for equality in schools.

However, critical race theorists, educators and some parents say that opponents are actively distorting what the theory is in order to reverse progress made in diversity and racial equity.

"The whitewashing of history, the banning of books, the silencing of diverse voices do everything to rob students of the truth of our history, and do everything to plant the seeds of white supremacy," Kim Anderson, executive director of the National Education Association, told ABC News............

MSN

www.msn.com

I spoke to some friends about this last weekend. One of them said no matter how much a kid is taught about the past they will never understand what it’s like to be a minority because they can’t experience it.

I think what concerns the vast majority of white people is the assignment of blame. I do not know what is being taught to children. I know that I was not taught enough in Sixth Ward Louisiana. I know that all three of my children have either dated POC or are currently dating POC. So I did something right.

The friends I have talked to are mainly concerned that their children will be taught that they are bad because they are white and should feel guilty.

There is such a huge gap in learning about slavery and I feel that in itself could be a class and not just a part of a history class. I don’t feel guilty personally. I wasn’t there I didn’t own slaves. I do feel empathy. I can’t imagine the horrors of being owned and sold like a piece of property. I can’t imagine being separated from my family with no means of communication.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

i was only half joking when i said that someone is going to take the 'birds aren't real' idea too far

I was replying to someone once in a paish Facebood his fk group about Mosquitoes and flies in the area. Some random person replied about how he has the same bumble bee (or maybe it was a wasp) comes and flies arounrom porch every morning while he's drinking his coffee and said it was probably a Gov't Drone..
They are more common than you want to believe..lol

 

[Optimus Prime]

The friends I have talked to are mainly concerned that their children will be taught that they are bad because they are white and should feel guilty.

I agree that it should be a required class

In one of the articles I posted on MAP a black student had the perfect response to that concern

If black children are old enough to experience racism, white children are old enough to learn about it

 

[0rion]

Why were their parents so bad at raising their kids?

As a parent one of your many jobs is pointing your kids moral compass and teaching love and compassion. Kids aren't born with hate....it's learned. Even basic right from wrong lessons. These parents have failed at one or all of those.

 

[Semper]

I agree that it should be a required class

In one of the articles I posted on MAP a black student had the perfect response to that concern

So you’re saying white kids should learn to feel bad and guilty? I am honestly confused.

 

[DaveXA]

So you’re saying white kids should learn to feel bad and guilty? I am honestly confused.

I think what he's saying is that at the age when black kids experience racism, white kids should be learning about racism and the impact it has on everyone. And I agree, we should should learn about what blacks have been dealing with for centuries and be mindful of how we treat each other from a young age. I'm not seeing the "feel bad/guilt trip" part of it here.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Either here or on MAP someone was talking about what it means to be anti-racist

I don't remember who or in what thread or how long ago, but it stuck with me

Too many people see or hear something and keep quiet thinking 'that's terrible, but I'm not racist and I don't teach my kids to be racist"

Be anti-racist the same way people are anti-pedophile

If you see a grown man molesting a six year old you're not going to just think "that's terrible, but I'm not a pedophile and I don't teach my children to be"

You are most definitely going to do something about it

And it's not easy

Saying something to the stranger in the grocery store who makes a racist comment isn't the same thing as when someone at work says something in the weekly meeting. And what if that someone is your superior? or owns the company?

What about if it's close friends or family?

You're hoping that they immediately apologize, or if mad in the moment they come to you a few days/weeks later and say something like 'I was thinking about what you said and you're right"

But that may not happen

But those conversations are what needs to happen if any real change is going to occur

 

[Optimus Prime]

So you’re saying white kids should learn to feel bad and guilty? I am honestly confused.

not at all

Dave got what I was getting at

If we are more concerned about how white kids feel about learning about racism than about how minority kids feel experiencing racism that's a huge problem

 

[Optimus Prime]

Posted this on MAP
================
Of all the attempts around the country to coddle the snowflakes among us who can’t handle the reality that our shared history is equal parts noble and brutal, the “discomfort” bill in the Florida state legislature is the most idiotic.

The official name of the legislation, part of the bonkers “stop woke” agenda of Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis, is “Individual Freedom.”

One of its provisions directs that classroom instruction not make any student "feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race.”

That protection from “discomfort,” of course, is a one-way street accessible only to White students.

What about the unease Black students feel learning history that is sanitized or just plain incorrect?

I know I’m going back some decades, but I’ll never forget the discomfort of being one of the few Black kids in a predominantly White school, especially during history class when slavery, the Civil War, the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. or the civil rights movement would come up.

One teacher often had students read sections of the textbook aloud in class. No one ever saw my growing alarm as I realized that the (startlingly brief) section on slavery would be intoned by me. I could feel the eyes on me as I read aloud paragraphs that barely scratched the surface of the inhumanity visited upon my ancestors.

The Civil War was merely a costly conflict between North and South that resulted in the liberation of the slaves.

And the civil rights movement, in retrospect, was discussed with an odd mix of admiration at how African Americans braved harrowing violence to push for the equality promised in the Constitution — and annoyance at how they disrupted the status quo by doing so.

Mostly, though, Black people and our foundational contributions to this country were downplayed or ignored……..

That’s who gets lost in all this: Black parents and their children. All because some White people can’t bear feeling “uncomfortable” learning about “divisive” subjects.

They want a gauzy, feel-good version of history that blinds them to the impact such a mythology has on events unfolding now.

Meanwhile, Black people have to live with the real-life consequences of this blissful ignorance…….

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/08/teaching-history-discomfort-black-students/

 

[kizzy821]

So you’re saying white kids should learn to feel bad and guilty? I am honestly confused.

It's interesting that you equate learning about something with feeling guilty it occurred.

I wonder if that's only reserved for slavery.

Why only teach kids the good stuff about their past? How is that going to manifest itself going forward?

On a super-micro level, how does that work out in a home where a child is only praised and never told the truth.

Why can't they feel guilt if that's the emotion that comes over them?

What if that's the first step in not growing up to be a racist?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Excellent video that everyone should watch

It goes over the micro aggressions we deal with all the time

The internal debate/struggle over whether you should say something about it

The woman who uses her position to challenge what was happening

The cashier who was denying doing what she was clearly doing

But think about her daughter.

Think about this ten year old child Seeing her mother go through that, think about her seeing her mother decide not to defend herself and just take it

But better that than have her classmates learn about systemic racism. They might feel bad and guilty

The 10 year old black girl standing next to her mother watching all this go down? Fork her

And literally case in point, a Kansas principal was forced to apologize after showing this exact video to staff because it created “a hostile work environment”

And it wasn’t a student or a parent who complained. It was a teacher

Kansas principal ordered to apologize for showing a video about white privilege after teacher said it created a hostile work environment

Derby High School's principal showed staff a video showing how some people could use their white privilege to be allies.

www.insider.com

 

[Semper]

It's interesting that you equate learning about something with feeling guilty it occurred.

I wonder if that's only reserved for slavery.

Why only teach kids the good stuff about their past? How is that going to manifest itself going forward?

On a super-micro level, how does that work out in a home where a child is only praised and never told the truth.

Why can't they feel guilt if that's the emotion that comes over them?

What if that's the first step in not growing up to be a racist?

You misunderstand or I didn’t state my intentions well. I basically mean a child should learn about our history, both the honorable and the horrible but not to feel as if it is their fault. Blame is on the people who committed those atrocities not on an 8 year old in a classroom being told he is white and he is at fault. I was saying that these are the things I hear when talking to people with kids in school. My children are all close to 30 and are not attending school.

While a large portion of white people allowed slavery there was another large portion of white people who fought and died to do what was right. There is a balance out there that still tilts too much in one direction but I am hopeful just based on my own family that every year this scale moves closer to equality. It isn’t perfect and it never will be. The equality can’t come fast enough for everyone, but already in my life I have seen change and growth.

 

[kizzy821]

You misunderstand or I didn’t state my intentions well. I basically mean a child should learn about our history, both the honorable and the horrible but not to feel as if it is their fault. Blame is on the people who committed those atrocities not on an 8 year old in a classroom being told he is white and he is at fault. I was saying that these are the things I hear when talking to people with kids in school. My children are all close to 30 and are not attending school.

While a large portion of white people allowed slavery there was another large portion of white people who fought and died to do what was right. There is a balance out there that still tilts too much in one direction but I am hopeful just based on my own family that every year this scale moves closer to equality. It isn’t perfect and it never will be. The equality can’t come fast enough for everyone, but already in my life I have seen change and growth.

You just have to teach the lessons. You can't manage the results of those lessons.

I'm sure a large portion of kids will feel just like you (it's not my fault, I wasn't there). So do we not teach them about it because they aren't going to respond with the appropriate level of concern?

No. Just teach the lessons. That's where you start.

 

[Semper]

You just have to teach the lessons. You can't manage the results of those lessons.

I'm sure a large portion of kids will feel just like you (it's not my fault, I wasn't there). So do we not teach them about it because they aren't going to respond with the appropriate level of concern?

No. Just teach the lessons. That's where you start.

Maybe I am just not explaining it well.