The Problem with Apu (1 Viewer)

[Cage1]

I've said this several times on EE now but the more I post here the more examples I see. Americans are becoming less and less empathetic.

That's 100% false. No question about it. We simply have more access to those "examples" because of social media, but there is no question that as a whole, (our) society is becoming more empathetic, and more racially sensitive.

 

[livefromDC]

I learned more about India from Apu than any other single source. Most of the time it was educational.

I think you have inadvertently stepped on the problem. A satirical cartoon as an educational source could unintentionally paint a monochromatic picture of an entire culture. If Apu alone is shaping what you identify as an Indian-american, I can see how Indian Americans could find that frustrating. Especially if they are nothing like Apu. You meet someone of some Indian descent. The one time you asked if he or she can do the Apu accent, could be the thousandth time they've heard that request. You didn't mean any harm and they know you didn't. The problem with Apu could be how pervasive the character has been in defining a very specific stereotype that Indian Americans have to deal with as they assimilate into American culture.

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

I think you have inadvertently stepped on the problem. A satirical cartoon as an educational source could unintentionally paint a monochromatic picture of an entire culture. If Apu alone is shaping what you identify as an Indian-american, I can see how Indian Americans could find that frustrating. Especially if they are nothing like Apu. You meet someone of some Indian descent. The one time you asked if he or she can do the Apu accent, could be the thousandth time they've heard that request. You didn't mean any harm and they know you didn't. The problem with Apu could be how pervasive the character has been in defining a very specific stereotype that Indian Americans have to deal with as they assimilate into American culture.

I wasn’t really criticizing the decision to get rid of the character. I was treating my response more like something I’d write in the book at Apu’s funeral. But I’ll still respond to your post...

I wasn’t saying I learned about Indians from Apu. Apu was pretty much my first exposure to Indian culture and Hinduism.

I was in the 4th grade when the Simpsons premiered. I wouldn’t have had any meaningful exposure to those things until college, and then later after meeting many people from India, without the Simpsons. The 2 hours or so my entire K-12 education might have spent on those topics weren’t meaningful.

 

[Sun Wukong]

I think you have inadvertently stepped on the problem. A satirical cartoon as an educational source could unintentionally paint a monochromatic picture of an entire culture. If Apu alone is shaping what you identify as an Indian-american, I can see how Indian Americans could find that frustrating. Especially if they are nothing like Apu. You meet someone of some Indian descent. The one time you asked if he or she can do the Apu accent, could be the thousandth time they've heard that request. You didn't mean any harm and they know you didn't. The problem with Apu could be how pervasive the character has been in defining a very specific stereotype that Indian Americans have to deal with as they assimilate into American culture.

Is Whitespalining a thing? Because this feels like Whitespalining.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

That's 100% false. No question about it. We simply have more access to those "examples" because of social media, but there is no question that as a whole, (our) society is becoming more empathetic, and more racially sensitive.

Oddly enough I think you’re both right

 

[RazorOye]

Oddly enough I think you’re both right

yes, both are. Social media has made it easier to connect with other people, other cultures and when people from those other cultures/places are in crisis, getting help - through empathetic appeal - is more widespread.

However, social media (as has more 'conventional' media) has hardened attitudes and reinforced ignorance and reliance on stereotype as 'knowledge.' The lack of media literacy is alarming and it's pretty widespread, across a number of age groups. This is directly related to a lot of work that I do and have done, and I can say that it's definitely still an impact. I'll go back to the media coverage of 'homelessness' in the 80s that I've talked about before. The examination of 3 newspapers - one each in NYC, LA, and DC - looked at how homelessness was covered and how homeless people were described.

The result became a stereotype of homelessness. No longer was it children or families who were living with other people and in need. It became a single guy, under a bridge, addicted to drugs and/or alcohol and homeless by choice. As a result, attitudes toward the homeless became harder and that had an impact on people in society generally. That has a discernible impact. The increased pervasiveness of media depictions have only made this process more efficient in some ways.

This isn't a phenomenon of mutual exclusivity.

And a declaration of "100% false" isn't really accurate. Nor is it accurate to say that it's "100% true."

 

[RazorSaint]

It's a cartoon. Let's keep this in perspective shall we? For instance libel is only admissible if it's not clearly satire. I would argue the Simpsons is clearly satire.

I realize this isn't being tried in a court of law, but shouldn't we maybe just cool it with the outrage? I mean...it's a friggin cartoon.

 

[Saint Jack]

It's a cartoon. Let's keep this in perspective shall we? For instance libel is only admissible if it's not clearly satire. I would argue the Simpsons is clearly satire.

I realize this isn't being tried in a court of law, but shouldn't we maybe just cool it with the outrage? I mean...it's a friggin cartoon.

So where the Looney Tunes cartoons in the 30s/40s when they constantly used blackface and yellowface.
Times do change.

 

[kcirdor]

So where the Looney Tunes cartoons in the 30s/40s when they constantly used blackface and yellowface.
Times do change.

But.... Looney Tunes broke ground with Drag Queen representation.

PS: my brother in law is from Pakistan. He does a perfect Apu'ish accent . Watching that dude sell "discount" jewelry is a marvel to behold.

 

[Optimus Prime]

It's a cartoon. Let's keep this in perspective shall we? For instance libel is only admissible if it's not clearly satire. I would argue the Simpsons is clearly satire.

I realize this isn't being tried in a court of law, but shouldn't we maybe just cool it with the outrage? I mean...it's a friggin cartoon.

How you are portrayed in TV/movies matters

 

[RazorSaint]

How you are portrayed in TV/movies matters

Yeah, it's just like mistrel shows/blackface.

A cartoon. With caricatures of every race. A cartoon....caricatures. A drunken, violent Scot. Drunken buffoon Caucasians. Judgmental Christians. Violent mob affiliated Italians.

Did you know that people of Indian ancestry in the US are so oppressed, so hated, that they have the highest income of any other ancestry, far higher than European Americans?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

Regardless, it's outrage culture. I get it. Feelz before realz, as they say.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

Yeah and actual Native Americans sit between the average income of Somali and Columbian Americans. Where they sit 85th and 102nd respectively.

I'm not exactly sure what point you are trying to make there? Because if its that legacies of mistreatment don't hold over the arc of history, you just linked evidence against yourself.

Indian Americans tend to be wealthier because they tend to come over heavily on green cards and the like by way of higher education or job placement. Which heavily skews the results.

 

[livefromDC]

Yeah, it's just like mistrel shows/blackface.

A cartoon. With caricatures of every race. A cartoon....caricatures. A drunken, violent Scot. Drunken buffoon Caucasians. Judgmental Christians. Violent mob affiliated Italians.

Did you know that people of Indian ancestry in the US are so oppressed, so hated, that they have the highest income of any other ancestry, far higher than European Americans?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

Regardless, it's outrage culture. I get it. Feelz before realz, as they say.

I'm not of Indian descent so I can't say how someone who is should feel about this. I'm making my assumptions off of what the author wrote. He has paid much closer attention to how Apu is depicted and likely has first hand experiences with the world that views him through that depiction. Neither of us are in any position to say what is worthy of discussion as it relates to an Indian-american's concerns about media characterization of his culture. And that's what this should be, a discussion about how Apu can be perceived as problematic not IF. The "IF" has been answered as evident by the article. The perception exists within Indian-americans. We know this. So your insistence in saying this is not offensive or that's not a big deal is superfluous. Unnecessary.

Instead of trying to understand the point of view presented by the person raising the question about Apu, it feels like you're going out of your way to try to minimize the author's point of view. If there's another question to be answered in this thread, it's why do some people feel so threatened by how other ethnic or cultural groups perceive the portrayal of their culture in mainstream media? In simplistic terms, we should be asking ourselves why they feel this way. Meanwhile you're screaming, "you shouldn't feel this way!"

 

[livefromDC]

Yeah, it's just like mistrel shows/blackface.

Regardless, it's outrage culture. I get it. Feelz before realz, as they say.

You sound like the type of guy that complains that PMS isn't a real thing and women are all in on the conspiracy. They aren't REALLY that tired or in pain, they just want attention and time off. Feels before realz!

Smh...

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

I'm outraged about Fat Tony, this character perpetuates stereotypes of Italians as mobsters and doesn't use body positive language.

As a non Italian I’ve always been outraged at the idea that only Italians can be mobsters. As one who knows *factually and in *family that this isn’t true, that’s always perplexed me. Oh well, is what it is. ?