N/S The Real Reason Mark Ingram Left Saints (1 Viewer)

DaveXA

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It’s not that he **** the bed those first few years, it’s how Payton used him that didn’t afford him the opportunity to put up the flashy numbers everyone was expecting him to put up as a 1st round pick that we traded up to get. All the people that were disappointed with him were expecting him to have 200+ carries, 1000 yards, and a boatload of TD’s for what we gave up to get him and Payton had a different vision for his offense.

His first 2 and a half years here, we had Thomas, Sproles, and Ivory here so he was essentially used as a short yardage and goal-line back exclusively and his carries per game numbers and YPC show such...
  • 2011: 12.2 carries/game, 3.9 YPC
  • 2012: 9.8 carries/game, 3.9 YPC
  • 2013: 7.1 carries/game, 4.9 YPC
It wasn’t until halfway through the 2013 season that Payton really started feeding him enough that Ingram was able to demonstrate he was fully capable of being a 3-down RB and eventually the aforementioned RB’s either departed or retired. They were replaced with new names (Hightower, Robinson, and Spiller), but even though he was still splitting carries, he learned to get into his rhythm faster. From 2014 on, you can see Payton started feeding him more and rotating RB’s less frequently compared to his first 3 years...
  • 2014: 17.4 carries/game, 4.3 YPC
  • 2015: 13.8 carries/game, 4.6 YPC
  • 2016: 12.8 carries/game, 5.1 YPC
  • 2017: 14.4 carries/game, 4.9 YPC
  • 2018: 11.5 carries/game, 4.7 YPC
First 3 years: 356 carries / 37 games = 9.6 carries/game, 4.1 YPC

Last 5 years: 965 carries / 69 games = 14.0 carries/game, 4.7 YPC

All he needed was for Payton to let him stay in the game and get that rhythm going.

The way stuff transpired with his agent is unfortunate for all parties involved. He never should’ve switched agents. Originally represented by Joel Seagal, he changed agents prior to the 2018 season and is now represented by Paul Bobbitt. The reason behind it was Bobbitt played football at Michigan State with Ingram’s dad and is a close family friend of the Ingram’s. Bobbitt took advantage of that relationship by constantly reinforcing the idea that Ingram was worth $8M per year on the open market.

If you have someone you’ve been around nearly all your life and they’re now handling your business interests, you’re far more likely to trust them, right? And that’s what happened. The interviews Ingram did upon signing with the Ravens did not have that same cheerful demeanor, he appeared as someone who regretted what happened. Of course he had to give the same clichéd answers of “happy to be here”, “can’t wait to get to work”, “nice meeting all the new guys,” and all that but you could clearly see it was night and day personality-wise a few months ago.

Now, his demeanor is much closer to how it was here but it definitely helps morale when you’re steamrolling the conference but alas.

The Deuce comparison was made more about how you felt about Ingram’s fumbles, it was never a slight towards Deuce. Only that if you felt that strongly about Ingram putting the ball on the ground, then that should be applied unilaterally across all Saints RB’s, Deuce just happens to be the only one that is ahead of Ingram on the franchise’s all-time rushing yardage list and that’s why the comparison was made.
Yeah, in those early years, I was one of those people who griped that Payton wasn't using Ingram enough. It took a while, but when he finally started getting 15+ carries, you started seeing the offense really improve. Fans have long been pretty vocal about Payton's penchant for passing too much.

It still happens at times, but far less frequently. When Kamara and Murray are running well, everything else gets a bit easier.
 

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It’s not that he **** the bed those first few years, it’s how Payton used him that didn’t afford him the opportunity to put up the flashy numbers everyone was expecting him to put up as a 1st round pick that we traded up to get. All the people that were disappointed with him were expecting him to have 200+ carries, 1000 yards, and a boatload of TD’s for what we gave up to get him and Payton had a different vision for his offense.

His first 2 and a half years here, we had Thomas, Sproles, and Ivory here so he was essentially used as a short yardage and goal-line back exclusively and his carries per game numbers and YPC show such...
  • 2011: 12.2 carries/game, 3.9 YPC
  • 2012: 9.8 carries/game, 3.9 YPC
  • 2013: 7.1 carries/game, 4.9 YPC
It wasn’t until halfway through the 2013 season that Payton really started feeding him enough that Ingram was able to demonstrate he was fully capable of being a 3-down RB and eventually the aforementioned RB’s either departed or retired. They were replaced with new names (Hightower, Robinson, and Spiller), but even though he was still splitting carries, he learned to get into his rhythm faster. From 2014 on, you can see Payton started feeding him more and rotating RB’s less frequently compared to his first 3 years...
  • 2014: 17.4 carries/game, 4.3 YPC
  • 2015: 13.8 carries/game, 4.6 YPC
  • 2016: 12.8 carries/game, 5.1 YPC
  • 2017: 14.4 carries/game, 4.9 YPC
  • 2018: 11.5 carries/game, 4.7 YPC
First 3 years: 356 carries / 37 games = 9.6 carries/game, 4.1 YPC

Last 5 years: 965 carries / 69 games = 14.0 carries/game, 4.7 YPC

All he needed was for Payton to let him stay in the game and get that rhythm going.

The way stuff transpired with his agent is unfortunate for all parties involved. He never should’ve switched agents. Originally represented by Joel Seagal, he changed agents prior to the 2018 season and is now represented by Paul Bobbitt. The reason behind it was Bobbitt played football at Michigan State with Ingram’s dad and is a close family friend of the Ingram’s. Bobbitt took advantage of that relationship by constantly reinforcing the idea that Ingram was worth $8M per year on the open market.

If you have someone you’ve been around nearly all your life and they’re now handling your business interests, you’re far more likely to trust them, right? And that’s what happened. The interviews Ingram did upon signing with the Ravens did not have that same cheerful demeanor, he appeared as someone who regretted what happened. Of course he had to give the same clichéd answers of “happy to be here”, “can’t wait to get to work”, “nice meeting all the new guys,” and all that but you could clearly see it was night and day personality-wise a few months ago.

Now, his demeanor is much closer to how it was here but it definitely helps morale when you’re steamrolling the conference but alas.

The Deuce comparison was made more about how you felt about Ingram’s fumbles, it was never a slight towards Deuce. Only that if you felt that strongly about Ingram putting the ball on the ground, then that should be applied unilaterally across all Saints RB’s, Deuce just happens to be the only one that is ahead of Ingram on the franchise’s all-time rushing yardage list and that’s why the comparison was made.
Alan12, the one thing that is clear is that you my friend are off the chain in an amazingly good way with putting arguments and stats together! Seriously, impressive responses! I’m not sure how you find the time, but goodness you are a statking 🙌🏽. I mean this sincerely.
Some things to consider when making stats the ultimate deciding factor:
- Stats can lie depending on the situations due to football being such a team sport(look up troy aikman stats & compare to tony romo & try to convince anyone that Romo is superior simply due to stats bud)
- NFL had gone through many eras in style of play so stats are majorly skewed the further the years spread out in comparisons(the deuce usage vs mark fits here due to saints regime change)
- Sean Payton knows how to use Mark Ingram better than any of us clowns 🤡 on this board.(i mean let’s be real here guy)
- Mark Ingram wouldv’e had tons more stats if he wouldv’e been drafted initially by a run 1st team
- IF Moby Dick was a minnow then he’d be a minnow.(hopefully you get this in a positive way)
 
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SammyDaLoon

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Again, that's like, your opinion man. A lot of Saints fans look back fondly on Ingram's time as a who dat. I'll always see him as a who dat. I'll remember his angry runs and unabashed support of his teammates. The camaraderie between him, Kamara and the rest of the locker room was a ton of fun. The criticism of him those first few years was savage. And when he started having a lot of success, and his value as a runner, receiver and blocker proved indispensable. Kamara and Ingram complemented each other very well.

It's just disappointing that you feel like you have to tear him down, and without any objective evidence, to make yourself feel better about him leaving. It's a weird and illogical pattern I see in some fans to diss other players who are no longer Saints players. But, if that works for you, so be it. Just don't be surprised when people disagree with you.

And while I'm happy for the success he's having in Baltimore, I'm happy to see Murray is filling his shoes about as well as can be expected. I've moved on, but it seems some bitter people haven't yet. :shrug:
Davexa, yeah it’s my opinion. Ok? What’s wrong with sharing my opinion Mr. Super Moderator? I simply do not like Ingram because of the way he exited the Saints. I believe he shouldv’e stayed with the Saints if he were a true team player, but instead he CLEARLY shielded himself from responsibility by conveniently allowing his Agent to get him outta of NOLA. Does anyone remember the talk tnat his Agent asked for $8mil yearly at 1st?!?!? This was quoted by multiple folks like Adam Schefter etc... When I heard that, I knew what Mark’s Plan would be....It was part of Mark’s Plan & other folks on this message board don’t seem to understand that means Mark simply wanted 100% of the spotlight so he wouldn’t have to share carries with Kamara anymore. I think members are foolish to praise Mark for being such a team player due to the above circumstances. Mark was a team player all the way up until his contract was up & a new NOLA Exit Plan was devised by BOTH Mark & his Agent. Hey, NFL is a business #1 for players and we all should just admit that Mark chose/chased the money over bringing NOLA another Lombardi. That to me wreaks of Non-Brees Like Qualities. Brees would have NEVER done this & this is why ALL OTHER SAINTS should be judged by the standard Brees sets as a leader. Mark Ingram is gone and I’m happy about it!
 

DaveXA

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Davexa, yeah it’s my opinion. Ok? What’s wrong with sharing my opinion Mr. Super Moderator? I simply do not like Ingram because of the way he exited the Saints. I believe he shouldv’e stayed with the Saints if he were a true team player, but instead he CLEARLY shielded himself from responsibility by conveniently allowing his Agent to get him outta of NOLA. Does anyone remember the talk tnat his Agent asked for $8mil yearly at 1st?!?!? This was quoted by multiple folks like Adam Schefter etc... When I heard that, I knew what Mark’s Plan would be....It was part of Mark’s Plan & other folks on this message board don’t seem to understand that means Mark simply wanted 100% of the spotlight so he wouldn’t have to share carries with Kamara anymore. I think members are foolish to praise Mark for being such a team player due to the above circumstances. Mark was a team player all the way up until his contract was up & a new NOLA Exit Plan was devised by BOTH Mark & his Agent. Hey, NFL is a business #1 for players and we all should just admit that Mark chose/chased the money over bringing NOLA another Lombardi. That to me wreaks of Non-Brees Like Qualities. Brees would have NEVER done this & this is why ALL OTHER SAINTS should be judged by the standard Brees sets as a leader. Mark Ingram is gone and I’m happy about it!
And you completely missed Alan's point that Ingram had switched to a new agent, which was a close friend of his dad, and who made a gross error in judgement by overestimating his client's market value substantially. It was clear Ingram wasn't thrilled with how things went down. He trusted his new agent because of the long relationship in the family. In hindsight, Ingram probably would have wanted to stay with the Saints. You continue to misrepresent what happened because the stats and what happened don't fit your narrative. And players have to balance money and staying with the team all the time. Win some, lose some. It's not a reflection at all on the player's view of the organization in many cases. I mean, some of our most revered players have played for other teams. Hardly unique to Ingram. I don't understand why you have to bash a player who was one of the best running backs we've had in our history.

Like I said, you're free to have your opinion. I respectfully disagree with it. If beating up on former Saints players makes you feel better, not much I can do about it.
 

SammyDaLoon

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And you completely missed Alan's point that Ingram had switched to a new agent, which was a close friend of his dad, and who made a gross error in judgement by overestimating his client's market value substantially. It was clear Ingram wasn't thrilled with how things went down. He trusted his new agent because of the long relationship in the family. In hindsight, Ingram probably would have wanted to stay with the Saints. You continue to misrepresent what happened because the stats and what happened don't fit your narrative. And players have to balance money and staying with the team all the time. Win some, lose some. It's not a reflection at all on the player's view of the organization in many cases. I mean, some of our most revered players have played for other teams. Hardly unique to Ingram. I don't understand why you have to bash a player who was one of the best running backs we've had in our history.

Like I said, you're free to have your opinion. I respectfully disagree with it. If beating up on former Saints players makes you feel better, not much I can do about it.
DaveXA, listen bud, you continue to go on being Mr. Super Moderator. I'll state my opinion to fit the narrative I view as accurate. That was this board is for afterall....It's not a FACT board only. I've been around this board since 1997, so I'm not some johny come lately dude.

Also, I'm not bashing on Mark as much as stating the opinion of the overwhelming majority of Saints fans before Mark got his issues together over the years. My opinion on Mark is VERY critical, but not bashing him. In my original post I commended Mark's likability by other Saints players, hard work, and positive attitude. Now Mark isn't a Saint and his work here is officially over, so my final grade on Mark as a Saint is a B-. Nothing near A grade, not completely average, but he is clearly underwhelming and was supposed to deliver more to the Saints than he ultimatly delivered.

To blame Sean Payton 100% for Mark's lack of consistent production is silly. Sean will many times take the blame 100% just to support his player, but behind closed doors we know the truth is 50/50. Ultimately Mark will NOT be brought back to the Saints simply to overtake Deuce's career rushing stats. I believe when it's all said and done IN TERMS OF SAINTS TEAM IMPACT Mark Ingram will be thought of as lesser of a back than Deuce, Reggie, Kamara, etc.... Mark will not have participated in helping NOLA get a 2nd championship. Mark did not transform the Saints backfield in any way shape or form. Mark was meh.....

Why didn't yall bring up Mark's Drug Suspension? Is that not a terrible sign of a leader on a NFL team? Yall got some silly comeback for him being excused from this? I would love to hear the "well x y z player did it and he won a superbowl"

To me, yall are just fine tip toeing through the tulips in yall player analysis. Mark Ingram is an ABOVE AVERAGE NFL Back & nothing more. His current contract proves that other NFL teams value him as just that "above average". He's 30 years old for goodness sakes, can't really run the expanded route tree that the NEW NFL BACKS a la Kamara, Christian M., Dalvin Cook, etc.... So Mark Ingram has already reached his zenith in his career and you guys wanna crown this dude?!

Oh...poor me...I'm so caught up in how other's on this board might view me or whatever...all hogwash...It's an opinion board...blah blah blah
 

DaveXA

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DaveXA, listen bud, you continue to go on being Mr. Super Moderator. I'll state my opinion to fit the narrative I view as accurate. That was this board is for afterall....It's not a FACT board only. I've been around this board since 1997, so I'm not some johny come lately dude.

Also, I'm not bashing on Mark as much as stating the opinion of the overwhelming majority of Saints fans before Mark got his issues together over the years. My opinion on Mark is VERY critical, but not bashing him. In my original post I commended Mark's likability by other Saints players, hard work, and positive attitude. Now Mark isn't a Saint and his work here is officially over, so my final grade on Mark as a Saint is a B-. Nothing near A grade, not completely average, but he is clearly underwhelming and was supposed to deliver more to the Saints than he ultimatly delivered.

To blame Sean Payton 100% for Mark's lack of consistent production is silly. Sean will many times take the blame 100% just to support his player, but behind closed doors we know the truth is 50/50. Ultimately Mark will NOT be brought back to the Saints simply to overtake Deuce's career rushing stats. I believe when it's all said and done IN TERMS OF SAINTS TEAM IMPACT Mark Ingram will be thought of as lesser of a back than Deuce, Reggie, Kamara, etc.... Mark will not have participated in helping NOLA get a 2nd championship. Mark did not transform the Saints backfield in any way shape or form. Mark was meh.....

Why didn't yall bring up Mark's Drug Suspension? Is that not a terrible sign of a leader on a NFL team? Yall got some silly comeback for him being excused from this? I would love to hear the "well x y z player did it and he won a superbowl"

To me, yall are just fine tip toeing through the tulips in yall player analysis. Mark Ingram is an ABOVE AVERAGE NFL Back & nothing more. His current contract proves that other NFL teams value him as just that "above average". He's 30 years old for goodness sakes, can't really run the expanded route tree that the NEW NFL BACKS a la Kamara, Christian M., Dalvin Cook, etc.... So Mark Ingram has already reached his zenith in his career and you guys wanna crown this dude?!

Oh...poor me...I'm so caught up in how other's on this board might view me or whatever...all hogwash...It's an opinion board...blah blah blah
Have a nice day. :9:
 

Loco Hornet Fan

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DaveXA, listen bud, you continue to go on being Mr. Super Moderator. I'll state my opinion to fit the narrative I view as accurate. That was this board is for afterall....It's not a FACT board only. I've been around this board since 1997, so I'm not some johny come lately dude.

Also, I'm not bashing on Mark as much as stating the opinion of the overwhelming majority of Saints fans before Mark got his issues together over the years. My opinion on Mark is VERY critical, but not bashing him. In my original post I commended Mark's likability by other Saints players, hard work, and positive attitude. Now Mark isn't a Saint and his work here is officially over, so my final grade on Mark as a Saint is a B-. Nothing near A grade, not completely average, but he is clearly underwhelming and was supposed to deliver more to the Saints than he ultimatly delivered.

To blame Sean Payton 100% for Mark's lack of consistent production is silly. Sean will many times take the blame 100% just to support his player, but behind closed doors we know the truth is 50/50. Ultimately Mark will NOT be brought back to the Saints simply to overtake Deuce's career rushing stats. I believe when it's all said and done IN TERMS OF SAINTS TEAM IMPACT Mark Ingram will be thought of as lesser of a back than Deuce, Reggie, Kamara, etc.... Mark will not have participated in helping NOLA get a 2nd championship. Mark did not transform the Saints backfield in any way shape or form. Mark was meh.....

Why didn't yall bring up Mark's Drug Suspension? Is that not a terrible sign of a leader on a NFL team? Yall got some silly comeback for him being excused from this? I would love to hear the "well x y z player did it and he won a superbowl"

To me, yall are just fine tip toeing through the tulips in yall player analysis. Mark Ingram is an ABOVE AVERAGE NFL Back & nothing more. His current contract proves that other NFL teams value him as just that "above average". He's 30 years old for goodness sakes, can't really run the expanded route tree that the NEW NFL BACKS a la Kamara, Christian M., Dalvin Cook, etc.... So Mark Ingram has already reached his zenith in his career and you guys wanna crown this dude?!

Oh...poor me...I'm so caught up in how other's on this board might view me or whatever...all hogwash...It's an opinion board...blah blah blah
You’re absolutely bashing him and you are being “VERY critical” about things that are factually inaccurate (which has been pointed out to you).

You are obviously free to keep posting your opinions about Ingram, but while this isn’t (as you point out) a “facts only” board, it’s generally good practice to try to line your opinions up with the facts and take them into consideration.

To each his own. Enjoy the rest of the season.
 

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It’s not that he **** the bed those first few years, it’s how Payton used him that didn’t afford him the opportunity to put up the flashy numbers everyone was expecting him to put up as a 1st round pick that we traded up to get. All the people that were disappointed with him were expecting him to have 200+ carries, 1000 yards, and a boatload of TD’s for what we gave up to get him and Payton had a different vision for his offense.

His first 2 and a half years here, we had Thomas, Sproles, and Ivory here so he was essentially used as a short yardage and goal-line back exclusively and his carries per game numbers and YPC show such...
  • 2011: 12.2 carries/game, 3.9 YPC
  • 2012: 9.8 carries/game, 3.9 YPC
  • 2013: 7.1 carries/game, 4.9 YPC
It wasn’t until halfway through the 2013 season that Payton really started feeding him enough that Ingram was able to demonstrate he was fully capable of being a 3-down RB and eventually the aforementioned RB’s either departed or retired. They were replaced with new names (Hightower, Robinson, and Spiller), but even though he was still splitting carries, he learned to get into his rhythm faster. From 2014 on, you can see Payton started feeding him more and rotating RB’s less frequently compared to his first 3 years...
  • 2014: 17.4 carries/game, 4.3 YPC
  • 2015: 13.8 carries/game, 4.6 YPC
  • 2016: 12.8 carries/game, 5.1 YPC
  • 2017: 14.4 carries/game, 4.9 YPC
  • 2018: 11.5 carries/game, 4.7 YPC
First 3 years: 356 carries / 37 games = 9.6 carries/game, 4.1 YPC

Last 5 years: 965 carries / 69 games = 14.0 carries/game, 4.7 YPC

All he needed was for Payton to let him stay in the game and get that rhythm going.

The way stuff transpired with his agent is unfortunate for all parties involved. He never should’ve switched agents. Originally represented by Joel Seagal, he changed agents prior to the 2018 season and is now represented by Paul Bobbitt. The reason behind it was Bobbitt played football at Michigan State with Ingram’s dad and is a close family friend of the Ingram’s. Bobbitt took advantage of that relationship by constantly reinforcing the idea that Ingram was worth $8M per year on the open market.

If you have someone you’ve been around nearly all your life and they’re now handling your business interests, you’re far more likely to trust them, right? And that’s what happened. The interviews Ingram did upon signing with the Ravens did not have that same cheerful demeanor, he appeared as someone who regretted what happened. Of course he had to give the same clichéd answers of “happy to be here”, “can’t wait to get to work”, “nice meeting all the new guys,” and all that but you could clearly see it was night and day personality-wise a few months ago.

Now, his demeanor is much closer to how it was here but it definitely helps morale when you’re steamrolling the conference but alas.

The Deuce comparison was made more about how you felt about Ingram’s fumbles, it was never a slight towards Deuce. Only that if you felt that strongly about Ingram putting the ball on the ground, then that should be applied unilaterally across all Saints RB’s, Deuce just happens to be the only one that is ahead of Ingram on the franchise’s all-time rushing yardage list and that’s why the comparison was made.
well put above....just want to add that I thought it was pretty common knowledge that Ingram had turf toe for over a year early in his career and kept trying to play on it...and he was completely healthy in 2013, which not coincidentally is when the light started to come on for him....all of a sudden he could make quicker sharper cuts and the yardage started to come forth with.....
 

DaveXA

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well put above....just want to add that I thought it was pretty common knowledge that Ingram had turf toe for over a year early in his career and kept trying to play on it...and he was completely healthy in 2013, which not coincidentally is when the light started to come on for him....all of a sudden he could make quicker sharper cuts and the yardage started to come forth with.....
Definitely. Turf toe is killer for running backs, and people were entirely too hard on him early in his career because of that. Ingram is smashing fools now. Good for him.
 

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