The Demonstrations in Minnesota (Update: Now Nationwide){Now International} (3 Viewers)

[tomwaits]

Here's one possible answer. I don't expect many Republicans to support it, but really pleased Rep. Amash is pushing for it.

New Bill Would Abolish Qualified Immunity, Make It Easier To Sue Cops Who Violate Civil Rights

A legal rule known as “qualified immunity” often shields police officers from being sued by victims and their families, even if the officers violated their civil rights.

www.forbes.com

Yes, I posted that a few days ago when Amash sent a tweet about it. Its a good first start, but I don't think it will pass or it will be gutted and unrecognizable if it does.

Ending the war on drugs is still the best thing that could happen, and also ending the huge amount of swat raids for suspicion of non-violent crimes.

 

[St. Widge]

What do you guys and gals think will be the end result of the protests?

I am pessimistic that no matter who is in office, we will only get token legislation passed. Even if more meaningful legislation is passed I think the courts and the DA's will warp it and remove the teeth so nothing much changes. (we already have this with how they use qualified immunity and the Constitution in general)

We are more likely to get touchy-feely bills passed with sugar coated names like, "Bill to promote racial unity and harmony" or something like that and it will be filled with a ton of pork spending that ends up enriching the politically connected and the banks without adding much if any accountability to police.

I hope I am wrong.

I was kind of wondering this last night. What is the end game? Obviously things are not going to change quickly. Certainly not in the current political climate. So, what is going to be the step that turns the protests into law or actions? Will the protests evolve into a productive national dialogue of some sort? Or do they just go on indefinitely?

 

[St. Widge]

I'm pessimistic, too. Maybe I'll run for office. On a 'Fix 2020, Fix America' platform. Police brutality. Healthcare. Equity in education. Infrastructure - rural and urban. Social supports. Institutionalized racism. Housing. Tax reform.

Take this thing into my own damn hands.

That would be great. For Canada.

 

[RazorOye]

They were unhappy because of too much qualification. He had not expressed the appropriate amount of guilt and repentance.

I don't think this is an effective nor constructive way to look at it. Because you are, I know not intentional, putting the onus on others who were offended to 'get over it.'

This notion and framing of white guilt and repentance isn't helpful, imo. It's not about 'guilt' it's about ignorance or denial. And Brees showed at the very least the former. Why should people wake up this morning, see his IG post and think all is well? Why - for people who have suffered indignation and racism their entire lives - be ready to act like everything is okay or not still have a problem with his words. I mean, he made some pretty awful statements and disregarded the lives of black soldiers who fought, too, and came home to racism.

Kids and grandkids of these people - e.g. Marques Colston - really feel this. In a way that you nor I cannot.

So i don't think it's up to either of us to determine whether or not people offended by this should get over it. or that the 'amount of guilt and repentance' should be "appropriate" and enough.

If you have co-workers who feel this way, how about having a discussion as to why?

We need less of the first line and more of this last line, imo.

 

[RazorOye]

That would be great. For Canada.

If Trump can vote in Florida, I can run in Michigan.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

A lot of people, particularly in the black community aren't as accepting as you and I can't blame them really. It has absolutely nothing to do with politics. Words hurt and sometimes "I'm sorry" isn't enough. This is one of them.

I hear you, but if we are at a point in this country where someone - white, black, green or purple- cant say ‘Im sorry, I’m truly sorry and i promise to listen more going forward instead of just blabbing , and i‘m willing to use my considerable platform to help effect change’.. then we are even MORE screwed than i thought, and we were already really, really screwed.

 

[Brennan77]

I don't think this is an effective nor constructive way to look at it. Because you are, I know not intentional, putting the onus on others who were offended to 'get over it.'

This notion and framing of white guilt and repentance isn't helpful, imo. It's not about 'guilt' it's about ignorance or denial. And Brees showed at the very least the former. Why should people wake up this morning, see his IG post and think all is well? Why - for people who have suffered indignation and racism their entire lives - be ready to act like everything is okay or not still have a problem with his words. I mean, he made some pretty awful statements and disregarded the lives of black soldiers who fought, too, and came home to racism.

Kids and grandkids of these people - e.g. Marques Colston - really feel this. In a way that you nor I cannot.

So i don't think it's up to either of us to determine whether or not people offended by this should get over it. or that the 'amount of guilt and repentance' should be "appropriate" and enough.

If you have co-workers who feel this way, how about having a discussion as to why?

We need less of the first line and more of this last line, imo.

I wasn't offering commentary. I was describing what was expressed to me this morning. He was criticized because of too much qualification and not enough expression of guilt and repentance.

 

[St. Geezy]

How does one go from being so vehemently opposed to a staunch supporter in one day? \

It is very possible. We have seen it happen multiple times in this thread alone, where someone had a firm stance but had an open-mind, had dialogue with the other side, then flipped within a couple of hours of exchanges. It happens. I'm sure he had multiple conversations with teammates like Demario Davis and Malcolm Jenkins, and he now has a better understanding of why his comments could have been seen as offensive.

I haven't spoken much on the topic, but after seeing the full video and getting the full context of the interview, I think what happened here with him was simply a misunderstanding. He was asked a direct question about the anthem protests, answered it in the manner he always has, and then moments later, Yahoo puts out a shock headline and everyone runs with it. Drew simply did not read the room well, and everyone is on guard right now because it seems like anyone detracting or discrediting the protest in any manner whatsoever appears to be of the same ilk, firmly on one side and not open-minded; it is no coincidence that on Facebook, Twitter, or even on this very thread, it is the same people posting negative things about what is happening rather than showing true empathy for what caused it. Essentially, Drew inadvertently made himself look like he was on the side of the enemy, and I don't believe that was his intent.

In the end, the key to all of this is just having an open-mind and being an empathetic human being that is willing to listen and understand, which I believe Drew has done.

 

[St. Widge]

I don't think it's crazy to think that Malcolm Jenkins and maybe somebody like Demario Davis helped Drew to see the light. At this point I'm going to give Drew the benefit of the doubt and believe that the backlash pushed him to open up his mind. I get what you're saying on the first part, but overall I thought his post struck the correct tone after completely missing on tone yesterday.

The thing is I don't think he saw the light or really changed. Brees isn't a racist and I'm sure that he doesn't support police killing innocent black people or systemic racism. But he also believes what he believes about kneeling during the Anthem and nothing is going to change that.

I disagree with him that it's disrespectful, and even if it is, I think the players have a right to do it. But if Brees doesn't agree I'm fine with that because I know his disagreement doesn't come from a place of hatred or racism. But, he needs to acknowledge that many Veterans and children/grandchildren of Veterans don't agree with him and believe it is a respectful way to protest injustice and actually honors the principles that they fought for. (Luke Johnson, Saints beat writer and former U.S. Marine who served in Iraq, said as much in the article that he wrote yesterday.)

And given that, it seems to me that his position should be that while he cannot personally kneel based on his beliefs, he supports the rights of others to do so. And while he does not support their chosen method of protest, he does fully support the cause that they are supporting.

 

[TheDeparted]

The police chief says they didn't have permission. Who's telling the truth? The medics said they had a verbal agreement. Verbal agreements aren't worth anything.

Why does it feel like every profession that has to do with the law is trained to lie constantly? Lawyers, Politicians, Police ... am I missing someone?

Is it just perception based on the consequences of lies from government, which is a non-voluntary relationship, versus some company you can choose to ignore?

 

[St. Widge]

Yes, I posted that a few days ago when Amash sent a tweet about it. Its a good first start, but I don't think it will pass or it will be gutted and unrecognizable if it does.

Ending the war on drugs is still the best thing that could happen, and also ending the huge amount of swat raids for suspicion of non-violent crimes.

I agree on both points. The "war on drugs" has justified lots of militarization of police, it's a "war" after all, and has given Police lots of pretext reasons to stop black people when they really have no cause. Not to mention the number of black men in jail for minor drug offenses.

 

[tomwaits]

Why does it feel that every profession that has to do with the law is trained to lie constantly? Lawyers, Politicians, Police ... am I missing someone?

Judges

 

[buzd]

I hear you, but if we are at a point in this country where someone - white, black, green or purple- cant say ‘Im sorry, I’m truly sorry and i promise to listen more going forward instead of just blabbing , and i‘m willing to use my considerable platform to help effect change’.. then we are even MORE screwed than i thought, and we were already really, really screwed.

How can you claim you don't know enough about something and you need to listen more and also that you need to be a leader in the same breath? Seems to me if you are listening are learning, you should let the people you are listening to be the leaders.

 

[Brandon13]

The thing is I don't think he saw the light or really changed. Brees isn't a racist and I'm sure that he doesn't support police killing innocent black people or systemic racism. But he also believes what he believes about kneeling during the Anthem and nothing is going to change that.

I disagree with him that it's disrespectful, and even if it is, I think the players have a right to do it. But if Brees doesn't agree I'm fine with that because I know his disagreement doesn't come from a place of hatred or racism. But, he needs to acknowledge that many Veterans and children/grandchildren of Veterans don't agree with him and believe it is a respectful way to protest injustice and actually honors the principles that they fought for. (Luke Johnson, Saints beat writer and former U.S. Marine who served in Iraq, said as much in the article that he wrote yesterday.)

And given that, it seems to me that his position should be that while he cannot personally kneel based on his beliefs, he supports the rights of others to do so. And while he does not support their chosen method of protest, he does fully support the cause that they are supporting.

By seeing the light, I mean that I think/hope Drew is able see this with a bit broader perspective then just his own narrowed world view, which I think more than anything is what we saw from him yesterday: ignorance.

 

[Krodwhodat]

I'm pessimistic, too. Maybe I'll run for office. On a 'Fix 2020, Fix America' platform. Police brutality. Healthcare. Equity in education. Infrastructure - rural and urban. Social supports. Institutionalized racism. Housing. Tax reform.

Take this thing into my own damn hands.

you know i thought about running for office as well as scary that is, i sure my cabinet would come from here which is scarier but i actually listen to the unashamed podcast 3 days a week and what it is is the Alan, Jase and Phil do an hour podcast. the first 15 min is usually stories that are hilarious and then they get into scripture. Phil said something today about everything going on that was really good. at the end he said this isnt political, its spiritual. I agree totally. you dont have to be a christian or even believe in God to listen to Jesus's words, love one another, its that simple.