The Demonstrations in Minnesota (Update: Now Nationwide){Now International} (4 Viewers)

[Sun Wukong]

Not shocking at all. White Nationalist groups have long made it known that they believe exacerbating riots/protests into extreme violence will trigger a "second civil war" or some other social meltdown that will benefit their movement.

Yeaterday was really a "I'm starting to feel like this isn't organic" day for me. This seems to indicate that to be the case, at least somewhat.

 

[amused]

My Dad once gave me this piece of advice, "There's a very fine line between the bully you knew in high school and the officer writing you a ticket."

Like , four years time ?

 

[Krodwhodat]

To everyone saying that these rioters should focus on peaceful protest. This is a prime example of what is happening with a lot of these protests and what is turning them into riots:
A lot of NSFW language:


Some of this is being brought upon by intentional agitators, some of this is being brought upon by criminals in the crowd, and some of it is being brought upon by meat-head, power-tripped cops.

Saw that this morning and my first thought is this guy is an agitator of trouble and in his mind thinks he is helping the black community. I’m willing to admit that I don’t understand as I should but neither does this guy.

 

[St. Widge]

Not shocking at all. White Nationalist groups have long made it known that they believe exacerbating riots/protests into extreme violence will trigger a "second civil war" or some other social meltdown that will benefit their movement.

Yeaterday was really a "I'm starting to feel like this isn't organic" day for me. This seems to indicate that to be the case, at least somewhat.

I have no doubt that white nationalists would do this, but it's equally possible that ANTIFA would use this as an opportunity to promote their own form of anarchy.

Anyway, I don't know if it's white nationalists, ANTIFA, or both, but this thread suggests that it's a lot of out of town white agitators that are starting much of the looting and violence.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

I do agree 100% that good cops don't do enough to police their own. But i think the reasons for that is complicated. For one, the unions are powerful, and the unions will mute any attempt of good cops to police their own. Two, anyone who makes waves and files complaints about bad cops will be viewed and untrustworthy and will be passed over for promotions. The top bass are looking for people who do their jobs without making waves.

It's a cultural issue within many departments and you have governments, mayors and DAs who allow all of that to happen too.

The riots imo are a result of an almost perfect storm confluence of events and this case basically pulled the pin out of the grenade.

This isn't a protest anymore though. It's straight bedlam. Not sure what the way forward is though. So many things need to be addressed and that's not gonna happen overnight.

So what you are essentially telling me is that talking about all the good cops is functionally little more than some damage control. Since, and I agree, the system is so poisoned that even if you want to be a good cop, the systems and pressures are such that you put your own career and livelihood at risk. Which then of course raises larger ethical questions.

And the result from decades of that is a grenade resulting into riots. As MLK said, “riots are the language of the unheard.” And as you rightfully point out, their cries have been literally systematically made to be ignored at the institutional level.

Assuming I give proper context to the cointelpro and outside agitators, there is room for critique of methods of the individuals and small groups making some of these choices within these protests, but not much purpose. As the ultimate problem here is not rioting, it is a broken and unjust system perpetuating the ongoing legacy of white supremacy through institutionally racist policies and procedures that reinforce it.

 

[SystemShock]

ANTIFA

That bogeyman again?

 

[DaveXA]

That every single person arrested in Minny last night was from out of state speaks volumes imo. The protests have clearly become co-opted at this point.

Edit: Since this post, there's been some question as to whether the reports of out of state people being arrested, so my comment above is possible inaccurate.

I think it's time to arrest anyone trying to damage property, stealing or inciting riots. The focus has to get back on the murder of Floyd and systemic racism that runs in too many police departments.

 

[FootballLady]

So what you are essentially telling me is that talking about all the good cops is functionally little more than some damage control. Since, and I agree, the system is so poisoned that even if you want to be a good cop, the systems and pressures are such that you put your own career and livelihood at risk. Which then of course raises larger ethical questions.

And the result from decades of that is a grenade resulting into riots. As MLK said, “riots are the language of the unheard.” And as you rightfully point out, their cries have been literally systematically made to be ignored at the institutional level.

Assuming I give proper context to the cointelpro and outside agitators, there is room for critique of methods of the individuals and small groups making some of these choices within these protests, but not much purpose. As the ultimate problem here is not rioting, it is a broken and unjust system perpetuating the ongoing legacy of white supremacy through institutionally racist policies and procedures that reinforce it.

To add to your ongoing argument:

SPD Officer On Leave Following Controversial Social Media Post

A Shreveport police officer has been placed on administrative leave and is currently under investigation following a controversial Facebook post.

999ktdy.com

 

[St. Widge]

That bogeyman again?

What bogeyman?

 

[DaveXA]

So what you are essentially telling me is that talking about all the good cops is functionally little more than some damage control. Since, and I agree, the system is so poisoned that even if you want to be a good cop, the systems and pressures are such that you put your own career and livelihood at risk. Which then of course raises larger ethical questions.

And the result from decades of that is a grenade resulting into riots. As MLK said, “riots are the language of the unheard.” And as you rightfully point out, their cries have been literally systematically made to be ignored at the institutional level.

Assuming I give proper context to the cointelpro and outside agitators, there is room for critique of methods of the individuals and small groups making some of these choices within these protests, but not much purpose. As the ultimate problem here is not rioting, it is a broken and unjust system perpetuating the ongoing legacy of white supremacy through institutionally racist policies and procedures that reinforce it.

Oh for sure, the rioting is more of a symptom and extension as an outcome of the institutional racism that is still all too prevalent today. Certainly addressing and correcting that would change the equation and we wouldn't see the level of rioting we're seeing currently.

We've come a long way, yet we still have a long way to go.

 

[Dago]

That's what everyone said about the cop who killed Philando Castille before he was acquitted.

This is a great point. Nobody realistically expects perfect police because the police are a reflection of our society. If the bad ones that there is no defending (Castille, Floyd) were arrested and charged in the normal expedited fashion as any other criminal and then truly sentenced this wouldnt be happening

And every out of state butt crevasse caught during the riots should get a criminal count for every single assault, damaged/destroyed property, and death.

 

[FootballLady]

What bogeyman?

The ANTIFA one, as if they are the yang to the white nationalists' yin.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

To add to your ongoing argument:

SPD Officer On Leave Following Controversial Social Media Post

A Shreveport police officer has been placed on administrative leave and is currently under investigation following a controversial Facebook post.

999ktdy.com

This isn only the sort of personal thoughts I draw from on this matter.

I also know a number of cops. Some are people I grew up with, some I only knew through sports or whatever. Most are people I would trust to watch my kids, but a couple are really scummy people.

Some are casually scummy. Like one guy I knew years back that wa sin one of those cop Facebook groups, and they largely are low-level racist meme passing and some pretty dark humor.

And some of those guys I wouldn’t trust watching my kids, one is on that same force and aware of the Facebook group. There seems to be a parallel normative and structural issue at play in many of these departments.

 

[Krodwhodat]

So what you are essentially telling me is that talking about all the good cops is functionally little more than some damage control. Since, and I agree, the system is so poisoned that even if you want to be a good cop, the systems and pressures are such that you put your own career and livelihood at risk. Which then of course raises larger ethical questions.

And the result from decades of that is a grenade resulting into riots. As MLK said, “riots are the language of the unheard.” And as you rightfully point out, their cries have been literally systematically made to be ignored at the institutional level.

Assuming I give proper context to the cointelpro and outside agitators, there is room for critique of methods of the individuals and small groups making some of these choices within these protests, but not much purpose. As the ultimate problem here is not rioting, it is a broken and unjust system perpetuating the ongoing legacy of white supremacy through institutionally racist policies and procedures that reinforce it.

I think there is corruption in the police departments nationwide and I agree they need to police their own but I’m not sure how easy that is. I’m not going to say that I know about every police department but I do know that what we see on tv is not what it’s like in NOLA. There aren’t 100s of cops walking the street, hanging out in bars and buildings full of police. NOPD is truly short handed. They lose as many cops as they hire. He may see one other cop on a 12 hour shift if he isn’t training new recruits. He has had multiple complaints field against him for issues that rather than fight it you just deal with. One complaint is he showed up at a domestic violence call, broke up a fight then the wife filed a complaint against him because he grabbed her husband to break it up. It’s more complicated than it seems. The hiring standard is low, it has to be because nobody wants to do the dangerous thankless job. I remember when my brother was going through the vetting process and they were doing a background check he was worried about having and article 15 in the military and he defaulted on a credit card. They called me as part of his background check and I struck up a conversation with the guy. I told him how nervous my brother was and asked him how things were looking. He laughed and said my brother was the golden boy and they were trying to push him through quickly because he was one of 3 out of 350 candidates that didn’t have a arrest or drug issue on their record. I’m all for raising the standards but you already have a short handed force with what you have. What do you do to entice a better quality of personal or do you put term limits even? I have no idea but it has to change.

 

[St. Widge]

The ANTIFA one, as if they are the yang to the white nationalist's yin.

I have no idea what that means as I don't get involved in political bullshirt. I just know what I read in the thread I posted from Twitter. I have no idea what anyone's agenda is and if it's some sort of political buzz word that sparks partisans, I have no knowledge of it. But I don't have an agenda other than pointing out that some in the black community think it's privileged white kids who are the ones starting the violence and property damage. I mentioned those two groups because one was mentioned in the Tweet above mine that I happened to read just after reading the Tweet that I posted and the other was mentioned in the comments to the Tweet that I posted. If you are looking for a political agenda, I'm not the tree you want to be barking at.