The Saint vs The "Thug" (1 Viewer)

bobad

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Reads like a novella. We'll never know the whole story, the incident is just 1 of those tragic things that happen in life.
 

Wild Magnolia

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My biggest problem with this and the GQ piece from last week -- both quote O'Neal as saying “We were stopping for a light" when Smith allegedly hit them in front of Juan's. But very simple fact checking shows that the light was a few hundred feet away, and at that hour, I seriously doubt there was a line of cars stopped at the light. The most likely scenario is that Hayes stopped abruptly in the street for no apparent reason. In which case, Smith was reasonable in fearing that it was a set-up for a carjacking or other robbery, and reasonable in driving away instead of getting out to check on the non-existent "damage."

For reference, here's a shot of the street from Google Maps. Hayes stopped abruptly right near that parking meter. As you can see, the light is 7 or 8 car-lengths away.
Google Maps
 

Waymer

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My biggest problem with this and the GQ piece from last week -- both quote O'Neal as saying “We were stopping for a light" when Smith allegedly hit them in front of Juan's. But very simple fact checking shows that the light was a few hundred feet away, and at that hour, I seriously doubt there was a line of cars stopped at the light. The most likely scenario is that Hayes stopped abruptly in the street for no apparent reason. In which case, Smith was reasonable in fearing that it was a set-up for a carjacking or other robbery, and reasonable in driving away instead of getting out to check on the non-existent "damage."

For reference, here's a shot of the street from Google Maps. Hayes stopped abruptly right near that parking meter. As you can see, the light is 7 or 8 car-lengths away.
Google Maps
They definitely weren't stopping for a light. That doesn't necessarily mean something. Maybe they were very well stopping for a pedestrian, etc. Memories as we have seen time and time again, are quite fallible. On both sides of any issue.

That said, it also didn't appear to be a true slam on the brakes situation based on the video. A stop, yes...but certainly not a brake check type of situation. And if that was the intention (force Smith into a situation, then it doesn't add up that there is no immediate reaction from the Hummer with them coming out, but rather pausing and casually pulling to the side of the road).

There's so many unknowns for all of us. However this goes, I hope for all involved that justice is found. That may end up meaning Hayes is innocent. It may not. Whatever it is, I hope it is right, even though I and all but maybe 6-10 people will truly know. It's not bringing Smith back, so that's all I hope for to be honest.
 

CRESS_137

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The O'Neal guy sure has a lot to say to anyone that will interview him. Do you all consider that to be helpful to the defense or the opposite?
 

BuddyDeesGhost

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Yes I suppose its not enough to simply point out Big Will's personal struggles. In order to be considered "good" journalism nowadays the reporter must aggressively seek to humanize the murderer as much as possible.
 

0rion

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I thought it was a pretty good article. Did seem to lean towards Hayes but considering who he shot if his story doesn't get told by someone neutral it never will. I've thought all along I would wait until all the evidence comes out before I pass judgement and I still stick by that......I just wonder how equal the evidence is going to be though. A friend/cop there on scene at all stinks up any chance at me believing it was handled without bias.
 

muddbug2

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"Louisiana, like an increasing number of states, has a strong stand-your-ground law, under which a homicide “is justifiable . . . when committed in self-defense by one who reasonably believes that he is in imminent danger of losing his life or receiving great bodily harm and that the killing is necessary to save himself from that danger.” "

This one passage IMO taints the entire article and I stopped reading at this point.

"Homicide" is NEVER justified. "Homicide" IS the unlawful killing of anther person. This guy has an agenda other than reporting on this story.
 

Meachemdat

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"Louisiana, like an increasing number of states, has a strong stand-your-ground law, under which a homicide “is justifiable . . . when committed in self-defense by one who reasonably believes that he is in imminent danger of losing his life or receiving great bodily harm and that the killing is necessary to save himself from that danger.” "

This one passage IMO taints the entire article and I stopped reading at this point.

"Homicide" is NEVER justified. "Homicide" IS the unlawful killing of anther person. This guy has an agenda other than reporting on this story.
That and it's pretty easy to tell the difference between the accidental shooting of someone to protect yourself and shooting someones wife in both legs then shooting the person 7 times in the back....that's not really defending yourself.
 

brandon8283

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"Louisiana, like an increasing number of states, has a strong stand-your-ground law, under which a homicide “is justifiable . . . when committed in self-defense by one who reasonably believes that he is in imminent danger of losing his life or receiving great bodily harm and that the killing is necessary to save himself from that danger.” "

This one passage IMO taints the entire article and I stopped reading at this point.

"Homicide" is NEVER justified. "Homicide" IS the unlawful killing of anther person. This guy has an agenda other than reporting on this story.
Incorrect. Homicide is the killing of one person by another, just as suicide is the killing of oneself, or fratricide is the killing of one's brother. It does not imply guilt, innocence, or intent. Justifiable homicide is absolutely real, and is the case when one person kills another in self-defense.

That said, stand your ground laws are still garbage.
 

muddbug2

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Incorrect. Homicide is the killing of one person by another, just as suicide is the killing of oneself, or fratricide is the killing of one's brother. It does not imply guilt, innocence, or intent. Justifiable homicide is absolutely real, and is the case when one person kills another in self-defense.

That said, stand your ground laws are still garbage.
Thanks for the correction.

This guy didn't stand his ground he went hunting.

Should have just reported the hit and run and went home.
 

James Spader

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Incorrect. Homicide is the killing of one person by another, just as suicide is the killing of oneself, or fratricide is the killing of one's brother. It does not imply guilt, innocence, or intent. Justifiable homicide is absolutely real, and is the case when one person kills another in self-defense.

That said, stand your ground laws are still garbage.
Just curious, why do you think stand your ground laws are garbage. Please note that I am not supporting what the shooter did. Are you stating that people have a duty to retreat if they are attacked?
 

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