The Saints Defense and "Band Aid" Signings (1 Viewer)

InTheFade82

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So, Coach Payton returns and immediately mixed things up by firing Spagnuolo and switching to a 3-4. As we go through this change I'm hoping he is truly committed to changing the defense. Over the past 7 years the scouting department has failed to draft any playmakers and has missed the mark with our first round defensive choices (Jenkins, Ellis and Robinson). This surely needs to improve.

But there is another thing that has bothered me about the defense during the Payton era. The fact that theyve wasted money and roster spots on temporary "Band Aid" players that barely provided depth and never pushed the starters as competition

Darren Sharper is the only exception because he balled out in 09.

So, off the top of my head the Saints signed the following players:

Mark Simoneau (acquired via trade due to LB situation at the time then re-signed in 08)
Brian Simmons
Kevin Kaesveharn
Troy Evans
Aaron Glenn
Dan Morgan
Rod Coleman
Paul Spicer
Pierson Prioleau
Shaun Rogers
Abrauyo Franklin

I'm sure there are others but this shows we have wasted a significant amount of money over the years on sub par players. It really blows my mind how we haven't invested in 1 or 2 playmakers.
 

CantonLegend

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lofton....waste of money
greer.....waste of money
bunkley....waste of money
hawthorne....waste of money
vilma.....waste of money

we also missed on some key picks like harper who only made 2 pro bowls and cam jordan who isnt better than jj watt
 

Trey W.

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I don't know who Red Thumbed you but I agree. Our defensive talent evaluators have not been that great since Payton got here and we have missed way more on players than we've hit on. So far only 4 defensive players FA's come to mind that made an impact Sharper, Greer, Vilma, and Lofton. No player we've drafted other than Jordan and Hicks (only played 1 year) have progressed. I know Payton has loyalties and will give people chances but when you can't develop talent that is brought in you have some serious problems in coaches and scouts. Sadly we look to be stuck with our current DL and LB coach unless Payton lets Ryan bring in some people which would be nice. I really hope this change in defense will help but unless we can get some coaches that can teach up players and develop them better I don't see our defense really getting better. It's like after GW's first year, yeah we won the Super Bowl but after that year our defense constantly regressed.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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lofton....waste of money
greer.....waste of money
bunkley....waste of money
hawthorne....waste of money
vilma.....waste of money

we also missed on some key picks like harper who only made 2 pro bowls and cam jordan who isnt better than jj watt
Wow 0-4 with 1 undecided - unimpressive

Slight thread jack - I think the Ryan signing was a sign by SP/ML thatwe are going to keep bandaiding -- and im ok with that
I think one of the things that SP realized is that the road to the super bowl is a one year at a time venture (esp for defenses)
GW was building multi-look D's built around a lot of tweeners and I have to imagine this is what Ryan is going to try to improve on
 

literature

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I think that most of the players you view as "band aids" were really there for depth, special teams, or as role players. Every team needs those kinds of players.


For instance, Prioleau and Troy Evans were both special teams captains. Mark Simoneau was a starter during the 06 rebuilding process at a time when it was hard to get players to come to New Orleans. Rogers was brought in to help stop interior runs and collapse the pocket on limited snaps and he played this role well on a reasonable 1-year deal. These were positive moves.
 

CitySaint

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lofton....waste of money
greer.....waste of money
bunkley....waste of money
hawthorne....waste of money
vilma.....waste of money

we also missed on some key picks like harper who only made 2 pro bowls and cam jordan who isnt better than jj watt
You forgot old man Sharper
 

captaustin

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lofton....waste of money
greer.....waste of money
bunkley....waste of money
hawthorne....waste of money
vilma.....waste of money

we also missed on some key picks like harper who only made 2 pro bowls and cam jordan who isnt better than jj watt




What games are you watching?? Greer was a top 6 corner year before last and is a prime example of what zero pass rush does to the secondary I don't care who you are it's impossible to cover some of these superstar WRs for 6 to 8 seconds.. All the good corners uou can think of right now look at their pass rushing stats from their DL pass rush helps the seconday A LOT! Vilma has been a rock for us to lean on and alway performs. Cam Jordan and bunkley were playing in the wrong scheme and will prob be pro bowlers if not bunkley most Deff cam Jordan! Harper is the best blitzing saftey in the league spags just used him horribly tried to make him cover people that Jenkins should have been covering.
 

CantonLegend

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What games are you watching?? Greer was a top 6 corner year before last and is a prime example of what zero pass rush does to the secondary I don't care who you are it's impossible to cover some of these superstar WRs for 6 to 8 seconds.. All the good corners uou can think of right now look at their pass rushing stats from their DL pass rush helps the seconday A LOT! Vilma has been a rock for us to lean on and alway performs. Cam Jordan and bunkley were playing in the wrong scheme and will prob be pro bowlers if not bunkley most Deff cam Jordan! Harper is the best blitzing saftey in the league spags just used him horribly tried to make him cover people that Jenkins should have been covering.
Ur killin me smalls
 
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InTheFade82

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Sharper was the successful and we won a Super Bowl. But we've also seen where that has left us. A guy that can't play Cornerback or Free Safety.
 

dankdouglas

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I think it is too early to throw in the towel on Robinson or Jenkins and the list you mentioned of bandaids were relatively cheap depth. I don't think anyone thought they were getting probowlers. low risk possible high reward that every team has a mix of.
 

outvoted

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What games are you watching?? Greer was a top 6 corner year before last and is a prime example of what zero pass rush does to the secondary I don't care who you are it's impossible to cover some of these superstar WRs for 6 to 8 seconds.. All the good corners uou can think of right now look at their pass rushing stats from their DL pass rush helps the seconday A LOT! Vilma has been a rock for us to lean on and alway performs. Cam Jordan and bunkley were playing in the wrong scheme and will prob be pro bowlers if not bunkley most Deff cam Jordan! Harper is the best blitzing saftey in the league spags just used him horribly tried to make him cover people that Jenkins should have been covering.
It has already been pointed out, but he is being completely sarcastic.

My question is how do you read the thread and comment on this
V V V V V

lofton....waste of money
greer.....waste of money
bunkley....waste of money
hawthorne....waste of money
vilma.....waste of money

we also missed on some key picks like harper who only made 2 pro bowls and cam jordan who isnt better than jj watt
and completely ignore this
V V V V V

So, Coach Payton returns and immediately mixed things up by firing Spagnuolo and switching to a 3-4. As we go through this change I'm hoping he is truly committed to changing the defense. Over the past 7 years the scouting department has failed to draft any playmakers and has missed the mark with our first round defensive choices (Jenkins, Ellis and Robinson). This surely needs to improve.

But there is another thing that has bothered me about the defense during the Payton era. The fact that theyve wasted money and roster spots on temporary "Band Aid" players that barely provided depth and never pushed the starters as competition

Darren Sharper is the only exception because he balled out in 09.

So, off the top of my head the Saints signed the following players:

Mark Simoneau (acquired via trade due to LB situation at the time then re-signed in 08)
Brian Simmons
Kevin Kaesveharn
Troy Evans
Aaron Glenn
Dan Morgan
Rod Coleman
Paul Spicer
Pierson Prioleau
Shaun Rogers
Abrauyo Franklin

I'm sure there are others but this shows we have wasted a significant amount of money over the years on sub par players. It really blows my mind how we haven't invested in 1 or 2 playmakers.

Band aids, no matter how unattractive, work most times.
Do we all want the stud that plays at a monster level for years? Well DUH!!
Sadly though, that is not how society as a whole is anymore. Everyone wants the best "Right Now" rather than being patient and earning it.
 

LSSpam

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"Playmakers" don't show up in free agency but very rarely, very randomly, and often with uneven at best (Julius Peppers, Mario Wllliams in Buffalo so far) to cataclysmic (Nate Clements, Adalius Thomas) results.

Occasionally you get a Darren Sharper, Jabari Greer, Rodney Harrison, etc. but please note that none of those we're considered blockbuster signings. The big name at CB for instance when we signed Greer wasn't Greer but rather Bartell, who was a disaster.

Very, very rarely you see a Justin Smith. Except Justin Smith himself was only a modestly succesful signing by the 49ers until Harbaugh showed up and he turned into an All-Pro.

Point is, by definition anyone who comes via free agency is a "band-aid", as you're pulling from an often marginal pool of talent and consequently the available talent gets rapidly overbid. You get play makers via the draft and then you retain them.
 

LSSpam

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Hell even Drew Brees was considered a risky bandaid at QB when we signed him. Including by many here on this forum who still wanted to draft Matt Leinart to take over from Drew a couple of years after the draft =\ after all, why do the Saints keep getting mediocre band aid QBs and not just bite the bullet and get a real impact QB in the draft :covri:
 

SaintsJunkie

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I really can't complain about management or coaches, they got me a superbowl win, after many many years without hope, now I have hope every year.
 

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