The Science of Fasting (3 Viewers)

[Madmarsha]

I'm gradually started getting back on the wagon. I did IF/low carb dieting for a good year and a half, was going to the gym 3-4 times a week. Lost a ton of weight but more importantly I was feeling better than I've ever had in my life. Then covid hit and it sidetracked me. I started back on the low carb diet on Saturday and will be getting back into my gym habit and also doing the IF again. Yesterday I picked up some ketone testing strip, which I never used before, just to because I was curious about the whole ketosis thing. The reading I got was the second to highest level and at first I was excited but now that I've done some research on it I realize that this isn't a good thing. I understand the strips are not totally accurate and I plan on getting a blood testing monitor. Is anyone here familiar with the whole ketosis thing? Is there something to be done to lower ketones level to the nutritional ketosis range? Maybe not eating enough carbs or not eating enough period.

I go back and forth on testing but I am doing it now because I bought like 300 of them! I am never in the "large" range ever even when total low carbing or fasting and even just a small amount of carbs will kick me out. Some people take exogenous ketones and some say they can go right back into ketosis by just drinking bulletproof coffee with MCT oil. For me, I can't tweak it that way.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

I have been doing really well in my process since I got serious again. Pretty practiced in the habit. I have not been weighing because chasing a number and not seeing it is defeating and it is better psychologically to know I am doing it for health; but I want weight loss, dang it and I do think a longer fast will help me there. IF or OMAD for me seems more "maintenance". And, oh, yeah, I've done that refeeding wrong and, yikes learned the hard way that I hadn't learned anything yet about control.

Push through the day to bedtime. At 8am you'll be 36 hours in and we'll coax you along from there. You got this. You're 3-day goal is attainable. And if you feel you must cheat, Charmin won't stick to your tongue as much.

 

[Madmarsha]

Push through the day to bedtime. At 8am you'll be 36 hours in and we'll coax you along from there. You got this. You're 3-day goal is attainable. And if you feel you must cheat, Charmin won't stick to your tongue as much.

 

[Madmarsha]

I'm gradually started getting back on the wagon. I did IF/low carb dieting for a good year and a half, was going to the gym 3-4 times a week. Lost a ton of weight but more importantly I was feeling better than I've ever had in my life. Then covid hit and it sidetracked me. I started back on the low carb diet on Saturday and will be getting back into my gym habit and also doing the IF again. Yesterday I picked up some ketone testing strip, which I never used before, just to because I was curious about the whole ketosis thing. The reading I got was the second to highest level and at first I was excited but now that I've done some research on it I realize that this isn't a good thing. I understand the strips are not totally accurate and I plan on getting a blood testing monitor. Is anyone here familiar with the whole ketosis thing? Is there something to be done to lower ketones level to the nutritional ketosis range? Maybe not eating enough carbs or not eating enough period.

 

[CajunInVA]

Lol that's both a good and bad last meal before a fast

I had some pickled beets a little while before. Hopefully the vinegar helped with the insulin spike from the cake. I'm a little hungry tonight, but not too bad. When I did the 52 hour fast before Christmas I was never hungry, so this is a little more of a struggle, but between then and now I've aborted several longer fasts at about 20 hours, so this is headed in the right direction. A positive tonight is that the wife and middle child went out for a dinner date. Other kids are eating kid food tonight, so I don't have to worry about seeing wife eat good food that I might end up wanting. I'm imagining that tomorrow morning the worst will be behind me and then I just need to focus on when I'm going to break and how. I just found out I need to travel for a funeral this weekend, so I probably will break on Friday evening so I'm not traveling and/or breaking a long fast on the road.

 

[SaintInBucLand]

My favorite part about my way of eating now is I never really feel hungry anymore. Not like I used to when I was eating the standard American diet filled with processed foods. Plus eating to satiety doesn't take much at all, for my first meal after my 18-24 hours fasts is normally a couple eggs and some meat with some locally sourced honey(my one source of sugar/carbs)

By the way, honey drizzled on a rare steak.. is amazing.

 

[Tapxe]

I decided to just do OMAD today. Had some perishable food that won't be good after a fast and can't be frozen. Basically milk, but I did finish off 1.5 oz's tasso. Fried it up in 2 tsp bacon fat then tossed in celery, onion, bell pepper, and cabbage for a quick stir fry to go with my brown rice and black eye peas. Worst part was the big glass of whole milk. Should have stayed pretty low on the calorie and sugars even as there was a good deal of carbs. Guessing ~800 calories total on the day and most of that from the whole milk.

Not sure if I'll roll right into a fast starting tomorrow or finish off the milk and make some eggs and rice. If I eat, then will fast Fri-Sat or Sun depending on how I feel.

 

[Tapxe]

stay at 36 hours and under for fasts you really don't have to worry about refeeding syndrome

I wasn't familiar with it so did some research. NIH says greater than 5 days is the danger zone. I'm not sure where you found the 36 hr timeline. NIH did limit their data to published reputable study by NICE in UK. I don't know if there's better reputable data now or its just folks being conservative with the estimates which isn't a bad thing.

If I read it correctly, they suggest caloric intake be limited to 1/2 recommended daily intake to prevent development. I'll also post the image they use which describes some helpful supplements to administer prior. It seems they are mostly concerned with this in people at risk who haven't had nutrition in >5 days.

Longest I've done intentionally was 4 days and didn't have any issues so that's probably going to be my max. I got very little nutrition for a couple weeks during my jaw issue so I may be good for longer, but no reason to chance it.

Refeeding syndrome: what it is, and how to prevent and treat it

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Box 2 Patients at high risk of refeeding syndrome 1 3 4​

• Patients with anorexia nervosa
• Patients with chronic alcoholism
• Oncology patients
• Postoperative patients
• Elderly patients (comorbidities, decreased physiological reserve)
• Patients with uncontrolled diabetes mellitus (electrolyte depletion, diuresis)
• Patients with chronic malnutrition:
  • -Marasmus
  • -Prolonged fasting or low energy diet
  • -Morbid obesity with profound weight loss
  • - High stress patient unfed for >7 days
  • -Malabsorptive syndrome (such as inflammatory bowel disease, chronic pancreatitis, cystic fibrosis, short bowel syndrome)
• Long term users of antacids (magnesium and aluminium salts bind phosphate)
• Long term users of diuretics (loss of electrolytes)

 

[SaintInBucLand]

I wasn't familiar with it so did some research. NIH says greater than 5 days is the danger zone. I'm not sure where you found the 36 hr timeline. NIH did limit their data to published reputable study by NICE in UK. I don't know if there's better reputable data now or its just folks being conservative with the estimates which isn't a bad thing.

If I read it correctly, they suggest caloric intake be limited to 1/2 recommended daily intake to prevent development. I'll also post the image they use which describes some helpful supplements to administer prior. It seems they are mostly concerned with this in people at risk who haven't had nutrition in >5 days.

Longest I've done intentionally was 4 days and didn't have any issues so that's probably going to be my max. I got very little nutrition for a couple weeks during my jaw issue so I may be good for longer, but no reason to chance it.

Refeeding syndrome: what it is, and how to prevent and treat it

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It's probably a lot of people being conservative and not wanting to get sued as well for putting out the information on fasting and somebody takes it to the extreme then gorges themselves and triggers a bad bout of RS. Also, dependent on the person. Somebody who isn't used to fasting and does it for the first time will definitely have more issues than somebody who is adjusted to it. Fasting is something you need to take gradually.

 

[Dago]

I wasn't familiar with it so did some research. NIH says greater than 5 days is the danger zone. I'm not sure where you found the 36 hr timeline. NIH did limit their data to published reputable study by NICE in UK. I don't know if there's better reputable data now or its just folks being conservative with the estimates which isn't a bad thing.

If I read it correctly, they suggest caloric intake be limited to 1/2 recommended daily intake to prevent development. I'll also post the image they use which describes some helpful supplements to administer prior. It seems they are mostly concerned with this in people at risk who haven't had nutrition in >5 days.

Longest I've done intentionally was 4 days and didn't have any issues so that's probably going to be my max. I got very little nutrition for a couple weeks during my jaw issue so I may be good for longer, but no reason to chance it.

Refeeding syndrome: what it is, and how to prevent and treat it

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thanks for the info. I did two 5 day fasts in December and was looking to go longer but after reading that I think that would be foolish given the meds I am on

Thing is I actually enjoy fasting. The challenge, discipline, and self-control feel good and it puts me in a good mood

 

[Madmarsha]

It's been 24 hours. I think I need to eat so I'm gonna eat soup and just go for OMAD and maybe sneak up on it tomorrow.

 

[SaintInBucLand]

Thing is I actually enjoy fasting. The challenge, discipline, and self-control feel good and it puts me in a good mood

I hear you, I look forward to my 24-36 hour fasts. Some days I have to make myself eat after I have done my cardio and core stuff.

 

[CajunInVA]

At 36 hours. A good night’s sleep helped reset the hunger feelings. Doing well this morning. Another 24 hours will be easy. After that we will see. Still plan to break around 70 hour mark on Friday night because of unexpected commitments this weekend.

 

[CajunInVA]

How do you guys manage the carb withdrawal headache? Or do you even get them? For me, on the longer fasts or when I have gone really low carb, I get a bad headache about two days in. It’s probably not as bad as a caffeine withdrawal headache, but it’s not pleasant.

Is this part of the process? Is there a way to avoid?

 

[Tapxe]

How do you guys manage the carb withdrawal headache? Or do you even get them? For me, on the longer fasts or when I have gone really low carb, I get a bad headache about two days in. It’s probably not as bad as a caffeine withdrawal headache, but it’s not pleasant.

Is this part of the process? Is there a way to avoid?

I get them around the 24-36 hr range. Usually just 200 mg of ibuprophen works for me. My understanding is they come as a result of the brain adjusting to using ketones vs sugars for energy. Mine are light enough that I can usually just ignore them and they go away after 1 dose.