The Sean Payton Legacy (1 Viewer)

[sfidc3]

He was certainly a far from perfect coach on offense (anyone remember the double reverse to Billy Miller), and his defenses were 9 time out of 10 a mess. The man had faults.

The thing though is he always tried to fix those faults. He never rested on his laurels, and always put as good a product out there as possible. Given what he had at the beginning of his tenure, to what he left DA at the end, Sean should get a freaking statue.

It's a really good point here, and one I've tried to make many times before. CSP left the franchise in much better shape than he found it....it's not his fault that DA is a failure (thus far) as a HC.....

 

[SaintsMan209]

I think Payton got burned by Gregg Williams. So bad that he no longer trusted any other defensive coordinator and started calling his own shots which he was unable to do. look at junior galette. lik ewhy woul dhe even invest so much in that guy wow.

 

[Kingston]

Exactly...I don't think DA has ever been over .500 after week 2 in his entire HC career. HE is the one that has to prove he can win, because he hasn't yet.

If he isn’t this year he has no place coaching. Even going into the draft before we even start drafting our roster is solid. We are now drafting to add depth 1 or 2 of which or if we are lucky even more will emerge as starters or key contributors. Our issue the past 2 years and even with Winston being healthy (I say this as a fan of his) has been QB. Winston wasn’t built to sustain drives he is a chunk player that either moves quickly or gets a 3 and out. Andy was built for sustaining drives so much so he was scared to throw past 5 yards. This year we get back to a player that can make all the throws. We once again can play complementary football and stack some wins.

The only thing that is a worry is historically Carr has had issues in a new offense (who doesn’t). I am hoping getting him here early can offset that.

 

[Saint_Ward]

If Carr comes in and plays top 10 or better, the saints win a couple of NFC South titles and we even get a Super Bowl in the next 5/7 years what does that do to SP’s legacy.

What I mean is that he came here and we became a contender for a long time. He left the team in a mess which some of us thought needed to be rebuilt. This offseason Loomis does his Loomis and we are reloading with a lot of young talent and veteran mix for the future.

If we are successful is Loomis and company the real geniuses?

You could argue it also helps his legacy, because the 'bad' Saints team still wasn't that bad, and had a lot of talent still on the roster.

I think SP's legacy is cemented. He's by far the best coach we have ever had.

 

[blackadder]

Keeping the record straight.

That statistical anomaly you speak of was 2012 and Payton was on suspension for bountygate, and Joe Vitt was head coach. Steve Spagnuolo coached that "worst" defense, Pete was the play caller for that 5000yd season with Drew.

Spagnoulo was a Payton hire, and fire. Apparently the entrenched staff pointed the finger at Spagnouilo. But Spagnouilo has gone on to to more sustained success. So was more likely dysfunction with the entrenched cronies, since all they did was produce poor defensive outcomes across their whole era.

But moreso I am talking about the totality. The Gary Gibbs years when they also couldn't stop anyone. Then 2014,15 and 16 when the defenses were really as bad as 2012 and not that many yards off the all time record worst. 2014-15 happened when despite success in 2013 Rob Ryan was instructed to copy Seattle scheme and integrate players he didn't ask for.

There was a lot more there for many years that went well beyond "anomaly". It was just being bad at the making decisions on that phase of the game, holding on to poor coaches for too long, being a bad manager of DCs.

 

[liveoakh]

Spagnoulo was a Payton hire, and fire. Apparently the entrenched staff pointed the finger at Spagnouilo. But Spagnouilo has gone on to to more sustained success. So was more likely dysfunction with the entrenched cronies, since all they did was produce poor defensive outcomes across their whole era.

But moreso I am talking about the totality. The Gary Gibbs years when they also couldn't stop anyone. Then 2014,15 and 16 when the defenses were really as bad as 2012 and not that many yards off the all time record worst. 2014-15 happened when despite success in 2013 Rob Ryan was instructed to copy Seattle scheme and integrate players he didn't ask for.

There was a lot more there for many years that went well beyond "anomaly". It was just being bad at the making decisions on that phase of the game, holding on to poor coaches for too long, being a bad manager of DCs.

While true, but the achievement building a playoff team from the start, and rebuilding a playoff caliber team again after bountygate should also be noted. Sean put this team in a position to go to superbowls a few times. It is then up to the players to make it happen.

At least 3 times it came down to one play. In the end, that is all you can ask of a coach. Sean did his part. Sean put us in a position to win for most of his tenure here. I am thankful for the decade + of mostly winning football and New Orleans's only superbowl.

 

[IceHot]

Eventually every successful franchise gets a coach that becomes a legend. They get the Archie Manning treatment where their greatness isnt easily equaled by being the second great legend....

• Hank Stram (Chiefs)
• Bud Grant (Vikings)
• Marv Levy (Bills)
• John Madden (Raiders)

 

[ANKOMA33]

And on the topic of Sean Payton, I see he hired Joe Vitt to his coaching staff.

https://www.si.com/nfl/saints/news/joe-vitt-reunites-with-sean-payton-in-denver

 

[Saint Jack]

And on the topic of Sean Payton, I see he hired Joe Vitt to his coaching staff.

https://www.si.com/nfl/saints/news/joe-vitt-reunites-with-sean-payton-in-denver

It’s beginning to look like the “Contradictory Obligated Reunion Tour!”

 

[sfidc3]

Spagnoulo was a Payton hire, and fire. Apparently the entrenched staff pointed the finger at Spagnouilo. But Spagnouilo has gone on to to more sustained success. So was more likely dysfunction with the entrenched cronies, since all they did was produce poor defensive outcomes across their whole era.

But moreso I am talking about the totality. The Gary Gibbs years when they also couldn't stop anyone. Then 2014,15 and 16 when the defenses were really as bad as 2012 and not that many yards off the all time record worst. 2014-15 happened when despite success in 2013 Rob Ryan was instructed to copy Seattle scheme and integrate players he didn't ask for.

There was a lot more there for many years that went well beyond "anomaly". It was just being bad at the making decisions on that phase of the game, holding on to poor coaches for too long, being a bad manager of DCs.

I think even the most fervent pro CSP fan (which I probably am) would admit that he was far from perfect and he made many mistakes along the way, some of which you accurately point out.....BUT, I think you are missing the larger point here, he was not averse to correcting his mistakes (ie: hiring Gregg Williams, Dennis Allen as DC, Jeff Ireland as the draft expert, as CSP was a terrible drafter) and allowing his folks to do their jobs....for most of his time here the team culture was the best it has ever been.....playoffs 9 out of his 15 years here, 7 divisional titles (nearly half the time he was here we won the division) and a .631 winning percentage....

After watching the Saints abjectly fail for 20 years then going through a series of coaches for another 20 years who could win in the regular season but were incapable of post season success? CSP was a godsend, he changed the culture of the team and the expectations of the fans, forever.....the rest is just noise to me....no coach is perfect, they all have down years....