The strategy for the Saints every week should be the same: Run the Ball, stop the run...Coach Payton!!! (1 Viewer)

Let's look a little bit deeper than screaming run the ball and dumb play calling.

Against the Falcons the Saints ran the ball 18 times for 95 yards at 5.3 yards per carry. This sounds like we were running it down the Falcons throat. Look a little deeper and you will see that we had 2 carries for 54 yards. We had 10 carries for that went for -1 to +1 yard for a total of 5 yards or .5 yards per play. The other 6 rushes combined for 35 yards. If you are following along, that means about 1 in every 10 runs would go for a first down, 1 in every 3 runs would go for 5 yards and 60% of runs would go for little or no gain. This means if we ran the ball 10 times on first down, then 6 times we would end up with 2nd and 10 at which point it makes running the ball really tough. Then you start putting your offense in obvious passing situations that opens up your QB's to taking hits and sacks behind a makeshift line. Statistically speaking, it becomes extremely difficult to get 3 first downs in a single drive. Odds are you don't a first down on most drives and the rest of the drives you get one first down before punting.

When Teddy was playing we weren't missing 2 starters along the offensive line and a FB that has done a hell of a job opening holes in the running game. Those guys do make a difference.


We had 4 dropped passes that would have gone for more yards and points than the entire running game produced combined. Now just for fun, the 4 passes that were dropped, all 4 were for first downs to sustain drives. 3 of them would have either been for a TD or for 20+ yards. If those balls aren't dropped Brees is 22/30 275 yards and 3-4 TD's. We are up on the Falcons at the end of the 3rd quarter by 30+ points. Is that bad play calling or is it poor execution? The play calling Payton put together had us turn the ball over 0 times with 0 sacks behind a makeshift offensive line.

So my question for you is, if we won that game 41-10 would you have started this thread?

The Panthers game we had the same problems combined with putrid, bias, officiating. If we don't make the drops and the officiating is called equally we beat the Panthers by 30+.

Despite the drops, with Brees at QB we're averaging 3 points per game more than when Bridgewater was at QB.




Want to know how to make the running game better? We have to catch the ball. Our offense is and always has been to use the pass to set up the run. When you pop a couple big plays over the top then defenses have to adjust by pushing safeties back which opens up the running game. When you hit teams over the top it makes the short passing game better because corners are scared to sit on short routes and the safeties can't come flying up to defend short and intermediate routes.


If you do not punish a defense for cheating up they will continue to so making it very difficult to run the ball, particularly when you are missing 3 that are some of your best blockers in the running game. The play calling the last two games was there to punish the defense and make them back off. It was also there to drive a nail in the coffin and finish the game. The execution was in place from the time the ball was snapped to the time the ball hit the receivers hands. Your players have to make plays to succeed.


Makes WAY too much sense. Outstanding post.
 
It helps you guys chill out, I follow a 49ers forum pretty closely. (I doubt anybody remembers or cares, but I lived in San Francisco for over 20 years).


They are having the exact level of freak out that you guys are having.. There is plenty of discussion regarding if they can play at their home field in the wildcard if/when they lose this Sunday.

It's Sports. Everybody freaks out. Totally par for the course. if I was a female, and wore a bra, I would simply adjust my bra to a comfortable position, sit back, and let the weak unfold as it should.


in fact I might just get a bra for that specific purpose.
 
The plan should be to take whatever the defense gives you. If lanes are wide open because they are crowding the box, then slang that ball. If holes are open at the line, then pound that pigskin. Running for the sake of running serves no purpose.
 
The Saints have a RB that has gone for 100yds both times he’s been given the keys to the running game, and now they’ve largely ignored him... 20+ carries for 100+yds vs the Bears and Cardinals (both convincing victories)... then the BYE week hits, and he’s seen a max of 10 carries in a game since then (vs Atlanta, coming out of the BYE). I don’t get it
 
The Saints have a RB that has gone for 100yds both times he’s been given the keys to the running game, and now they’ve largely ignored him... 20+ carries for 100+yds vs the Bears and Cardinals (both convincing victories)... then the BYE week hits, and he’s seen a max of 10 carries in a game since then (vs Atlanta, coming out of the BYE). I don’t get it

Are we winning?

Does that answer your question?
 
The Saints have a RB that has gone for 100yds both times he’s been given the keys to the running game, and now they’ve largely ignored him... 20+ carries for 100+yds vs the Bears and Cardinals (both convincing victories)... then the BYE week hits, and he’s seen a max of 10 carries in a game since then (vs Atlanta, coming out of the BYE). I don’t get it
Perhaps opposing teams have made the same observation you have, and have altered their defensive approach to limit our rushing success. And the Bears and Cardinals are teams that any good team should beat convincingly -running, passing, returning, coin toss calling, whatever.
 
The Saints have a RB that has gone for 100yds both times he’s been given the keys to the running game, and now they’ve largely ignored him... 20+ carries for 100+yds vs the Bears and Cardinals (both convincing victories)... then the BYE week hits, and he’s seen a max of 10 carries in a game since then (vs Atlanta, coming out of the BYE). I don’t get it
So do you think it was the bye week where we suddenly quit using him or the injuries to Peat, Armstead and Line? Murray comes in when we go with our heavy package. Our heavy package now includes 3 players that didn't play until after the bye. Over this same span Murray is averaging less than 4 yards per carry since the bye week. The past two games against Atlanta he has 9 carries for 14 yards.

Murray will have some more big games coming and he'll get used.
 
Perhaps opposing teams have made the same observation you have, and have altered their defensive approach to limit our rushing success. And the Bears and Cardinals are teams that any good team should beat convincingly -running, passing, returning, coin toss calling, whatever.

I don’t know... the Cardinals held the 49ers to like 35yds rushing (as a team) in their matchup at San Fran.
 
Let's look a little bit deeper than screaming run the ball and dumb play calling.

Against the Falcons the Saints ran the ball 18 times for 95 yards at 5.3 yards per carry. This sounds like we were running it down the Falcons throat. Look a little deeper and you will see that we had 2 carries for 54 yards. We had 10 carries for that went for -1 to +1 yard for a total of 5 yards or .5 yards per play. The other 6 rushes combined for 35 yards. If you are following along, that means about 1 in every 10 runs would go for a first down, 1 in every 3 runs would go for 5 yards and 60% of runs would go for little or no gain. This means if we ran the ball 10 times on first down, then 6 times we would end up with 2nd and 10 at which point it makes running the ball really tough. Then you start putting your offense in obvious passing situations that opens up your QB's to taking hits and sacks behind a makeshift line. Statistically speaking, it becomes extremely difficult to get 3 first downs in a single drive. Odds are you don't a first down on most drives and the rest of the drives you get one first down before punting.

When Teddy was playing we weren't missing 2 starters along the offensive line and a FB that has done a hell of a job opening holes in the running game. Those guys do make a difference.


We had 4 dropped passes that would have gone for more yards and points than the entire running game produced combined. Now just for fun, the 4 passes that were dropped, all 4 were for first downs to sustain drives. 3 of them would have either been for a TD or for 20+ yards. If those balls aren't dropped Brees is 22/30 275 yards and 3-4 TD's. We are up on the Falcons at the end of the 3rd quarter by 30+ points. Is that bad play calling or is it poor execution? The play calling Payton put together had us turn the ball over 0 times with 0 sacks behind a makeshift offensive line.

So my question for you is, if we won that game 41-10 would you have started this thread?

The Panthers game we had the same problems combined with putrid, bias, officiating. If we don't make the drops and the officiating is called equally we beat the Panthers by 30+.

Despite the drops, with Brees at QB we're averaging 3 points per game more than when Bridgewater was at QB.




Want to know how to make the running game better? We have to catch the ball. Our offense is and always has been to use the pass to set up the run. When you pop a couple big plays over the top then defenses have to adjust by pushing safeties back which opens up the running game. When you hit teams over the top it makes the short passing game better because corners are scared to sit on short routes and the safeties can't come flying up to defend short and intermediate routes.


If you do not punish a defense for cheating up they will continue to so making it very difficult to run the ball, particularly when you are missing 3 that are some of your best blockers in the running game. The play calling the last two games was there to punish the defense and make them back off. It was also there to drive a nail in the coffin and finish the game. The execution was in place from the time the ball was snapped to the time the ball hit the receivers hands. Your players have to make plays to succeed.
You seem to be focusing on specific games and I'm talking overall philosophy. But if you want game-specific: When you see Latavious Murray averaging 9 yards/carry in the Panthers game and he doesn't touch the ball in the second half or even on pivotal 3rd/4th & 1s, and we win because their kicker choked, I can't point that out as a concern? The NFC is TOUGH and I don't want to bank on those teams choking; I want us to do what we are capable of and let the chips fall where they may.
 
So what you're saying is... we need a #2 wr... ;)
Let's look a little bit deeper than screaming run the ball and dumb play calling.

Against the Falcons the Saints ran the ball 18 times for 95 yards at 5.3 yards per carry. This sounds like we were running it down the Falcons throat. Look a little deeper and you will see that we had 2 carries for 54 yards. We had 10 carries for that went for -1 to +1 yard for a total of 5 yards or .5 yards per play. The other 6 rushes combined for 35 yards. If you are following along, that means about 1 in every 10 runs would go for a first down, 1 in every 3 runs would go for 5 yards and 60% of runs would go for little or no gain. This means if we ran the ball 10 times on first down, then 6 times we would end up with 2nd and 10 at which point it makes running the ball really tough. Then you start putting your offense in obvious passing situations that opens up your QB's to taking hits and sacks behind a makeshift line. Statistically speaking, it becomes extremely difficult to get 3 first downs in a single drive. Odds are you don't a first down on most drives and the rest of the drives you get one first down before punting.

When Teddy was playing we weren't missing 2 starters along the offensive line and a FB that has done a hell of a job opening holes in the running game. Those guys do make a difference.


We had 4 dropped passes that would have gone for more yards and points than the entire running game produced combined. Now just for fun, the 4 passes that were dropped, all 4 were for first downs to sustain drives. 3 of them would have either been for a TD or for 20+ yards. If those balls aren't dropped Brees is 22/30 275 yards and 3-4 TD's. We are up on the Falcons at the end of the 3rd quarter by 30+ points. Is that bad play calling or is it poor execution? The play calling Payton put together had us turn the ball over 0 times with 0 sacks behind a makeshift offensive line.

So my question for you is, if we won that game 41-10 would you have started this thread?

The Panthers game we had the same problems combined with putrid, bias, officiating. If we don't make the drops and the officiating is called equally we beat the Panthers by 30+.

Despite the drops, with Brees at QB we're averaging 3 points per game more than when Bridgewater was at QB.




Want to know how to make the running game better? We have to catch the ball. Our offense is and always has been to use the pass to set up the run. When you pop a couple big plays over the top then defenses have to adjust by pushing safeties back which opens up the running game. When you hit teams over the top it makes the short passing game better because corners are scared to sit on short routes and the safeties can't come flying up to defend short and intermediate routes.


If you do not punish a defense for cheating up they will continue to so making it very difficult to run the ball, particularly when you are missing 3 that are some of your best blockers in the running game. The play calling the last two games was there to punish the defense and make them back off. It was also there to drive a nail in the coffin and finish the game. The execution was in place from the time the ball was snapped to the time the ball hit the receivers hands. Your players have to make plays to succeed.
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You seem to be focusing on specific games and I'm talking overall philosophy. But if you want game-specific: When you see Latavious Murray averaging 9 yards/carry in the Panthers game and he doesn't touch the ball in the second half or even on pivotal 3rd/4th & 1s, and we win because their kicker choked, I can't point that out as a concern? The NFC is TOUGH and I don't want to bank on those teams choking; I want us to do what we are capable of and let the chips fall where they may.
Remind me: how many points did we put up on the board vs CAR?

You said "we were successful with Bridgewater". What constitutes success? Winning 12-10? Or 13-7? Yeah, that's technically success, just like winning 34-31 is technically success, right? Because as I saw it our offense was far less effective under Brdigewater.

The person you're responding to is 100% correct. Teams know we aren't going deep with it so they're sending 8 people to the line and crashing the safeties. When Bridgewater was in they didn't do that because it was early in the year and it was unknown how Payton would use him. But now we're trying to establish some deep plays to back their secondary off of the line.

But despite this, we're still averaging ~28 pts a game with Brees and the so called pass happy offense. That's good enough to be 5th in the league last I checked. IIRC we were somewhere around 10th in the league in points with Bridgewater.

But yeah, let's go ahead and get stuffed at the line on first and second down by forcing the ball into an 8 man box with safeties below the sticks.
 
I would love to see the Saints run the ball more and I am sure Sean Payton would love to as well. However, how many 1 yard runs have we had the last 2-3 games? Teams are loading the box and bringing the safeties up on 1st down, especially if Murray is in the game. The offense has to be patient and take what the defense is giving. If that means audibling to a pass because CGM is man to man then that is what has to be done.
 

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