The Turning Point: Vonn Bell (1 Viewer)

If you haven't noticed the deep ball has taken a back-seat to a more ball control offense over the last 2 years. We aren't the prolific downfield team we've all grown to love over the years. There has been a substantial down tick (based on eye test) in that regards.

Ponying up money for Cooks who will eventually turn into a secondary option seems to foreshadow a waste of money. Replacing him with a middle tier 2nd round pick would suffice. Remember Allen Robinson was found in the 2nd round.

Tommy Lee Lewis development could also be something to keep an eye on.

I get you , and I get the plan is to have strong OT's for that short passing game, but don't you have to have that speed stretch the field to open that shorter ball control passing game ?
 
Great play by Bell. i am not sure though that it vindicates the decision to punt.

If we were down by one td, punting might have made sense. To me, the percentages favored going for it. The odds of making a 4th and 6 are much greater than creating a fumble, much less two fumbles. And while credit is due to the defense for their 4th quarter stops, once again based upon their play this year it was not probable we would get those stops. One fumble wasn't even created by the defense, it was just a drop.

Frankly Payton's decision surprised me. He has never struck me as a conservative coach. i just think that overall the chances of Brees making six yds outweigh the chances of us getting two turnovers in the last six minutes.

Either way, the odds were against us. I think they were against us more once we gave SD the ball. I am very glad it worked out and have little doubt Payton knows better than me. Hopefully we can start having some games where we dont need turnovers in the end to win.
 
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I was also happy to see a safety who would hit some people.

He did whiff on a tackle and blew a coverage (or maybe it was the LBs fault).

Either way, I'd rather take some growing pains now with Bell knowing that he's our starter next year.

I agree that he's a play-maker and needs to be on the field.
 
Great call on the Vonn play....

I've only heard of two people ever that went by "Von".

Vonn Bell
Von Miller

Yeah baby.

in addition to the first names already mentioned
Vonnie Holiday - 1st game as a Chief he sacked Drew Brees 3 times (with the Chargers at the time)
Van Helsing
The Von Erich family
and I named my son with HoFer Arky Vaughan partially in mind
 
Great play by Bell. i am not sure though that it vindicates the decision to punt.

If we were down by one td, punting might have made sense. To me, the percentages favored going for it. The odds of making a 4th and 6 are much greater than creating a fumble, much less two fumbles. And while credit is due to the defense for their 4th quarter stops, once again based upon their play this year it was not probable we would get those stops. One fumble wasn't even created by ghee defense, it was just a drop.

Frankly Payton's decision surprised me. He has never struck me as a conservative coach. i just think that overall the chances of Brees making six yds outweigh the chances of us getting two turnovers in the last six minutes.

Either way, the odds were against us. I think they were against us more once we gave SD the ball. I am very glad it worked out and have little doubt Payton knows better than me. Hopefully we can start having some games where we dont need turnovers in the end to win.

Agreed. I was livid at the decision, and even with hindsight I think it very much him waving the white flag. We were very fortunate that our defense made a play on the very first play of the possession, but IMO if they even go 3 and out at that stage we likely would have lost the game.

Let's say that they go three and out and punt it back to us with 5:30 left. We're still going to have to march 70-80 yards for a touchdown, and then force another stop with around 2 minutes left if we're lucky, just to march another 70-80 yards for a touchdown with zero timeouts and who knows how much time left on the clock.

That's why I'm so pumped up about this play - because if it doesn't happen, we lose.

I'm giddy as hell about our win, but I'm just concerned that the decision to punt showed a little surrender in Sean Payton.
 
Agreed. I was livid at the decision, and even with hindsight I think it very much him waving the white flag. We were very fortunate that our defense made a play on the very first play of the possession, but IMO if they even go 3 and out at that stage we likely would have lost the game.

Let's say that they go three and out and punt it back to us with 5:30 left. We're still going to have to march 70-80 yards for a touchdown, and then force another stop with around 2 minutes left if we're lucky, just to march another 70-80 yards for a touchdown with zero timeouts and who knows how much time left on the clock.

That's why I'm so pumped up about this play - because if it doesn't happen, we lose.

I'm giddy as hell about our win, but I'm just concerned that the decision to punt showed a little surrender in Sean Payton.

Or the decision to punt was a nod to the defense to go out and make a play or two. We are in a transition phase. Moving forward this will no longer be the Drew Brees led Saints. He's moving away from being THE guy. He's now the assist man vs the leading scorer. So other guys will have to step up... Sunday was a good hint at the guys who can and will.
 
If you haven't noticed the deep ball has taken a back-seat to a more ball control offense over the last 2 years. We aren't the prolific downfield team we've all grown to love over the years. There has been a substantial down tick (based on eye test) in that regards.

Ponying up money for Cooks who will eventually turn into a secondary option seems to foreshadow a waste of money. Replacing him with a middle tier 2nd round pick would suffice. Remember Allen Robinson was found in the 2nd round.

Tommy Lee Lewis development could also be something to keep an eye on.

I HAVE noticed this EJW, but I haven't been able to determine whether it's due to necessity (lack of "speed" receiving personnel), inability to protect Drew long enough for those plays to develop (lack of guards), Drew's age (shorter ball-control offense should extend career for a few more years, if he isn't taking too many hits), or by design to keep the historically inept defense off the field. Perhaps a combination of all the above?

I respect your thoughtful opinions and analyses. What's your take?
 
I HAVE noticed this EJW, but I haven't been able to determine whether it's due to necessity (lack of "speed" receiving personnel), inability to protect Drew long enough for those plays to develop (lack of guards), Drew's age (shorter ball-control offense should extend career for a few more years, if he isn't taking too many hits), or by design to keep the historically inept defense off the field. Perhaps a combination of all the above?

I respect your thoughtful opinions and analyses. What's your take?

It's been by design. The shifting of Cooks to the X position. Drafting a possession Z instead of a speed Z. Moving away from the multiple deep threat roles once controlled by the Meachems,Hendersons, Joe Morgan's. That's been design as there are a lot of guys available who can stretch a D. The offense has transitioned around Brees aging just as us expect it would. Makes little sense to be the same offense from 09 when Drew isn't that QB anymore AND we don't have those types of players but it's clearly been a coignazant decision since SPs return to shift to a more ball control offense vs attacking. It's no coincidence the RB screen game has gone away for more WR screen attempts/empty back quick passes.

It's just natural evolution
 
The running game and short passing game will be more utilized over the next 3 years or so, I believe. It's how the Broncos did it, it's how the Cowboys did it, and it's how the old Broncos did it.

There will still be "shot" plays, but instead of relying on the OLine to deliver 4 seconds of clean pocket, these plays will rely on play action or pass action, to allow an upright Brees to hit a streaking target. Cooks has the deep speed and Thomas would seem to be able to go up and get it. In fact, I think Thomas becomes your "#1" that everyone clamours for - big, jump ball, post up huge hands type of WR, while Cooks will do the really short stuff, racking up a ton of catches, and the really long stuff. Cooks, Thomas, and Fleener will all get the deep ball looks, depending on the matchups that Payton likes.

Hooman and Kuhn make for really attractive running game pieces, while both still being functional enough in the passing game. Lasco and Ingram would also both seem to fit the "all purpose back" style of player that you would like to have in this offense. Fleener and Snead both fit in as "match up" players, guys who will have huge games against certain defenses, yet receive very few looks against other teams.

If I had to pinpoint our future offense and give it a name, I'd say "Efficient." Hopefully that extends Brees's time as much as possible.
 
Lack ov speed. Only one burner and the others short/intermediate.
 
in addition to the first names already mentioned
Vonnie Holiday - 1st game as a Chief he sacked Drew Brees 3 times (with the Chargers at the time)
Van Helsing
The Von Erich family
and I named my son with HoFer Arky Vaughan partially in mind


Manfred von Richthofen, aka The Red Baron.

Interred with full military honors by the Allies after his fall. Allied squadrons stationed nearby presented memorial wreaths, one of which was inscribed with the words, "To Our Gallant and Worthy Foe".
 

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