This game is a microcosm of why Dennis Allen will not last as Head Coach!!!! (2 Viewers)

[Cgrob81]

Exactly. It’s a mindset/ attitude. The team has adopted it. Prentice dropped a drive killing pass and then fumbles inside the 10 at the end of the 1st half. He ends up coming back in the game later. Sit him. Hold him accountable. It pains me to say I don’t care what happens this year. I’m at that point. I’m 56 yrs old and have never felt this way about a Saints team.

Sucks to say, but I won't watch another game until these coaches are replaced

 

[woohoosaint]

I originally thought that with the addition of Carr and a weak NFCS that we could win 10 or 11 games.
With the Oline in the condition that it's in, the offense not clicking and the current coaching staff we may be looking at a 6-11 season.

 

[MJ in Calif]

After being around Sean Payton all these years he didn't forget how to call offense. He is doing what Allen wants. Which is calling conservative safe crap and leaning too much on the defense who just got lit up by Baker Mayfield, whom arguably through 4 games is the true best QB in the NFC South and it isn't even close!!!!

I disagree. PC hasn't learned anything from SP. His play calling is abysmal and has been from the start. I was hoping they would not bring him back as OC. I mean he didn't even want the job initially. I fault DA for not making a change there in the offseason and if this doesn't get turned around soon, it will cost him his job. This offense is underachieving big time.

 

[MJ in Calif]

I cannot believe Pete suddenly went incompetent.

He didn't. OC was always a position he was in over his head with. He worked under SP as an assistant. He didn't even want the OC job. His inability was apparent last season when the offense continued to regress each and every week. I was shocked DA brought him back as OC.

 

[Saint KayBee]

Remember when Jim Haslett, himself a former NFL linebacker, couldn't scout, draft, or sign a quality NFL linebacker to save his life?

When Dennis Allen is that incompetent at scouting or coaching defense, I will call for him to be replaced. Sean Payton got to hire five different defensive coordinators in his tenure as Saints HC, and he almost didn't make what was the most important change when the time came to do so. He did, and the team was rewarded with a championship for it. That candle - as well as the next three - didn't burn very long, because evolutions in NFL offenses quickly made those guys outdated, but this is a defense that has not been less than pretty good since 2017. None of Payton's other DCs can claim sustained defensive consistency like this anywhere they've been.

I am willing to let Dennis Allen truly hire one, and maybe even two, offensive coordinators who are not Sean Payton holdovers, just as Payton was allowed to go outside of his long-term working trust and relationship with Gary Gibbs. Allen's unit is getting its job done, and I know having a strong defense isn't the esteemed and glamorous fan-friendly preference if one were made to choose, but it's working. I don't want the Saints to become a franchise that cycles through head coaches in rapid-fire succession. No team that has done that over the past 5-15 years is anything more than semi-decent today, and many still rank amongst the league's worst.

 

[rsmith2783]

 

[BarBar]

Remember when Jim Haslett, himself a former NFL linebacker, couldn't scout, draft, or sign a quality NFL linebacker to save his life?

When Dennis Allen is that incompetent at scouting or coaching defense, I will call for him to be replaced. Sean Payton got to hire five different defensive coordinators in his tenure as Saints HC, and he almost didn't make what was the most important change when the time came to do so. He did, and the team was rewarded with a championship for it. That candle - as well as the next three - didn't burn very long, because evolutions in NFL offenses quickly made those guys outdated, but this is a defense that has not been less than pretty good since 2017. None of Payton's other DCs can claim sustained defensive consistency like this anywhere they've been.

I am willing to let Dennis Allen truly hire one, and maybe even two, offensive coordinators who are not Sean Payton holdovers, just as Payton was allowed to go outside of his long-term working trust and relationship with Gary Gibbs. Allen's unit is getting its job done, and I know having a strong defense isn't the esteemed and glamorous fan-friendly preference if one were made to choose, but it's working. I don't want the Saints to become a franchise that cycles through head coaches in rapid-fire succession. No team that has done that over the past 5-15 years is anything more than semi-decent today, and many still rank amongst the league's worst.

This is not the same thing.

Sean Payton teams never played with a complete lack of discipline or identity or energy. And the players would never call out coaching as an issue in press conferences. This team isn't anything like an SP coached team. These players do not trust the system and they know this season is over with this regime.

Sorry, DA needs to get fired or demoted back to DC. I knew this last year when Kamara said there is no more fear of making mistakes now that Sean is gone. You can see that on the field.

 

[BreesusSaves]

This is not the same thing.

Sean Payton teams never played with a complete lack of discipline or identity or energy. And the players would never call out coaching as an issue in press conferences. This team isn't anything like an SP coached team. These players do not trust the system and they know this season is over with this regime.

Sorry, DA needs to get fired or demoted back to DC. I knew this last year when Kamara said there is no more fear of making mistakes now that Sean is gone. You can see that on the field.

All offseason the players were loud about their support of DA and PC.

Now I wonder if they were so vocal because they were trying to convince themselves as much as the fans to buy in to what was being sold.

 

[Centmssaint1]

Third and long sack. The end of half fumble. ak stepping out early like Ingram last year. Bad kick return after bad kick return. Just things you can't do in certain situations. Can't keep doin what your doin.

Kamara actually got the 1st. The official blew the spot. They blew several calls when it came to the Saints today. But overall, the offensive playcalling is what ultimately did the Saints in today. Just like it did in the second half of the GB game.

 

[Saint KayBee]

This is not the same thing.

Sean Payton teams never played with a complete lack of discipline or identity or energy. And the players would never call out coaching as an issue in press conferences. This team isn't anything like an SP coached team. These players do not trust the system and they know this season is over with this regime.

Sorry, DA needs to get fired or demoted back to DC. I knew this last year when Kamara said there is no more fear of making mistakes now that Sean is gone. You can see that on the field.

There were several flop games in the Payton era. Surely you remember the turmoil of the 2014-16 seasons, yes? Junior Galette, Brandon Browner, Keenan Lewis, Jairus Byrd, et al?

Dennis Allen, if he isn't the solution, will not merely be demoted, and I only have all of modern NFL history to support that claim. If the team decides it's time to move on - which, it should be noted, is not how the Payton era ended; he stepped down - they will give the next head coach the opportunity to bring in all of his own people. The upper management didn't make Sean Payton retain any of the very fired Jim Haslett's assistants, they cleaned house. I could not find a 21st century example of a team saying "this coach couldn't hack it here as a head coach, but we'll keep him and just have him coordinate a side of the ball." I don't know where Saints fans are getting this idea that this will be the team to retain but demote a head coach, but it's both a bit disconcerting and counter to all common knowledge of the sport to say the least. George Seifert told the 49ers to pound sand when they tried to hire Steve Mariucci to replace him, and they were a losing franchise back in salary cap purgatory two seasons later before firing Mariucci for turning it back around and wanting credit for doing his job well. It took them a decade and four coaching changes to recover. I don't want the Saints doing sloppy things just because it's doing something.

 

[BarBar]

There were several flop games in the Payton era. Surely you remember the turmoil of the 2014-16 seasons, yes? Junior Galette, Brandon Browner, Keenan Lewis, Jairus Byrd, et al?

Dennis Allen, if he isn't the solution, will not merely be demoted, and I only have all of modern NFL history to support that claim. If the team decides it's time to move on - which, it should be noted, is not how the Payton era ended; he stepped down - they will give the next head coach the opportunity to bring in all of his own people. The upper management didn't make Sean Payton retain any of the very fired Jim Haslett's assistants, they cleaned house. I could not find a 21st century example of a team saying "this coach couldn't hack it here as a head coach, but we'll keep him and just have him coordinate a side of the ball." I don't know where Saints fans are getting this idea that this will be the team to retain but demote a head coach, but it's both a bit disconcerting and counter to all common knowledge of the sport to say the least. George Seifert told the 49ers to pound sand when they tried to hire Steve Mariucci to replace him, and they were a losing franchise back in salary cap purgatory two seasons later before firing Mariucci for turning it back around and wanting credit for doing his job well. It took them a decade and four coaching changes to recover. I don't want the Saints doing sloppy things just because it's doing something.

Yes I remember all that stuff. It still wasn't like this. You are talking about flop games. I am talking about the entire last season plus the first four games of this season. Nothing but flop games.

To your point, if he can't be demoted then fire him. At this point what is the risk...that our team will not be any good?

 

[Saint KayBee]

Yes I remember all that stuff. It still wasn't like this. You are talking about flop games. I am talking about the entire last season plus the first four games of this season. Nothing but flop games.

"Nothing but flop games" is a statement for the 2008 Lions and the 2017 Browns. Last season the Saints swept the Falcons and retook the series lead. Not a flop. They shut out the Raiders on Halloween weekend. Not a flop. They fought back from 4-9 to position themselves to be playoff eligible in week 18. Not flops. They were competitive in several losses and really only got their doors blown off twice: Baltimore and San Francisco.

Again, when Dennis Allen's defense is the reason the Saints begin losing games, I will hit the button on him. For now, he needs to realize the Pete Carmichael Jr. experiment is over just like Sean Payton needed to realize the Gary Gibbs/Gregg Williams/Rob Ryan/Joe Vitt eras were over. I didn't want Payton out the door early either. Sticking with him paid off.

 

[TomThomster7]

Does it matter? Do you think Gayle Benson will go out and pay over odds for a premier head coach? Do you think Mickey Loomis will trust a young college coach/coordinator as a bold hire (one that will put Loomis on the hot seat for making a big decision)? I think Sean Payton left at the right time, understanding how impossible it is for an organization to be fresh and renewed with the same leadership. Frankly big changes need to be made, but I seriously doubt Gayle is the type to do that. She wasn't a risk taker like Tom Benson, who invested his own money into the NFL with the Saints. She got it all by marriage, and regardless of how deep her connections to NOLA are and her love of this place the Saints are not nearly as essential in her computing of that love as say, the diocese. The Saints are her business, not her passion.

Changes will happen, but I would be surprised if they were innovative or fantastic. And that is what we need now more than ever.

Edit: this is a bit of my frustration talking. Gayle has paid in the past (and continues to do so with players) but the general vibe I draw from how Payton's leaving has been handled is one of overwhelming conservatism. It feels like middle management is in charge, and the company is doomed by small cuts now.

Your edit makes sense.

 

[SystemShock]

I disagree, Dennis is a good defense coach, but not great. Carmichael is not a good OC, he made his name by being on the coat tails of DB and SP..

It was assumed that Carmichael knew anything about offensive play calling while under Payton.

 

[AmerVet]

I'm starting to believe this is all a ploy to justify having to bring Gruden in.