This offensive system doesn't work without Sean Payton. It barely worked without Brees. (1 Viewer)

[BayouSAINTJoe]

I will say this...there's been 13 teams to win SuperBowls since the 2009 season. None of them ran CSP's offense. We have to get out of the mindset that CSPs way was the only way...we need a staff that can find what works for our players instead of shoehorning them into a system that doesn't fit their abilities.

One thing is for certain though....whatever this is that we're trying to do this season and whoever is responsible for putting it in place...has to be gone for next season to stand any chance

 

[meily]

If DA gets a second season it's going to be at the expense of Carmichael and Allen getting a chance to make adjustments to his staff as he does have a good handle on the Defense.

 

[Jesse Custer]

If DA gets a second season it's going to be at the expense of Carmichael and Allen getting a chance to make adjustments to his staff as he does have a good handle on the Defense.

That's the frustrating part. Fantastic defensive coordinator and defensive playcaller. He just doesn't seem to have it as a head coach.

 

[BreesusSaves]

That's the frustrating part. Fantastic defensive coordinator and defensive playcaller. He just doesn't seem to have it as a head coach.

Similar to Dick LeBeau. I am NOT saying Allen is even remotely close to being as good of a DC as LeBeau, but LeBeau has a 0.267 winning percentage as a Head Coach. Some guys make great coordinators but STINK as a Head Coach.

 

[BikesBurgersBeer]

TBH it wasn't really working all that well with Payton and Brees either:



The league caught up

The analytics from the rest of that year and all the years previous say otherwise and the numbers you showed don't take account of injuries.

Using the Stat sheet of one game (yes a playoff game) to be a smart-arse, and wrong at that, isn't really proving any point you are trying to make.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

The analytics from the rest of that year and all the years previous say otherwise and the numbers you showed don't take account of injuries.

Using the Stat sheet of one game (yes a playoff game) to be a smart-arse, and wrong at that, isn't really proving any point you are trying to make.

Wasn't trying to be a smart arse...sorry you feel that way.

Sure the stats may look nice in the regular season...but come playoff time when teams stopped giving us the short stuff we thrived off of we struggled. Vs the Bucs in that game (Tampa pick sixed a 4 yard out), and vs the Vikings the year before when Hill was our most impactful QB. Our base offense stopped working come playoff time...and it's pretty obvious given how we finished those seasons not hoisting the Lombardi. The Minn Miracle game...offense was absent first 3 qtrs. (held scoreless damn near through 3 qtrs)..NOLA No call game, we got the ball first in OT...Minn playoff loss @ home the following year, pedestrian as well.

My point is in the NFL you evolve or you die...we ran the same system for too long....and it wasn't hard to stop if you weren't afraid of Brees in the latter years. Now we're still trying to run that same offense, that all of our divisional opponents have seen 2x a year for the last 5 years, and we wonder why they were on to almost everything we do.

 

[BikesBurgersBeer]

Wasn't trying to be a smart arse...sorry you feel that way.

Sure the stats may look nice in the regular season...but come playoff time when teams stopped giving us the short stuff we thrived off of we struggled. Vs the Bucs in that game (Tampa pick sixed a 4 yard out), and vs the Vikings the year before when Hill was our most impactful QB. Our base offense stopped working come playoff time...and it's pretty obvious given how we finished those seasons not hoisting the Lombardi. The Minn Miracle game...offense was absent first 3 qtrs. (held scoreless damn near through 3 qtrs)..NOLA No call game, we got the ball first in OT...Minn playoff loss @ home the following year, pedestrian as well.

My point is in the NFL you evolve or you die...we ran the same system for too long....and it wasn't hard to stop if you weren't afraid of Brees in the latter years. Now we're still trying to run that same offense, that all of our divisional oppobyGnkents have seen 2x a year for the last 5 years, and we wonder why they were on to almost everything we do.

Wasn't trying to be a smart arse...sorry you feel that way.

Sure the stats may look nice in the regular season...but come playoff time when teams stopped giving us the short stuff we thrived off of we struggled. Vs the Bucs in that game (Tampa pick sixed a 4 yard out), and vs the Vikings the year before when Hill was our most impactful QB. Our base offense stopped working come playoff time...and it's pretty obvious given how we finished those seasons not hoisting the Lombardi. The Minn Miracle game...offense was absent first 3 qtrs. (held scoreless damn near through 3 qtrs)..NOLA No call game, we got the ball first in OT...Minn playoff loss @ home the following year, pedestrian as well.

My point is in the NFL you evolve or you die...we ran the same system for too long....and it wasn't hard to stop if you weren't afraid of Brees in the latter years. Now we're still trying to run that same offense, that all of our divisional opponents have seen 2x a year for the last 5 years, and we wonder why they were on to almost everything we do.

I don't think that's an accurate assessment of the way the offense was run, the play calling, or the play of Drew Brees.

I'll agree that with injuries and age the field got shorter, especially the last two years, but we played well despite the injury woes and playoff losses.

The use of that playoff Stat sheet to say analytics weren't working was a smart remark.

 

[blackjack]

Here’s hoping that the teams who might want to trade for Payton never read this thread about how inept and archaic his offense is.

 

[Jesse Custer]

Here’s hoping that the teams who might want to trade for Payton never read this thread about how inept and archaic his offense is.

In Brees's prime, God help you because there was no stopping it. Herbert will easily be able to run that offense. The offense Brees ran his last few seasons only worked because Brees was the one running it. Payton was masterful adjusting his offense for each QB's strengths. DA and Pete haven't even shown themselves to be competent in that. You literally can't run the same offense for Jameis that you can for Andy, but that's what they've been trying to do. Payton had Jameis humming along at career-high efficiency numbers, but Pete has only been able to do the same thing for one quarter.

 

[NatureBoy]

I think the offense lacks 2 things since SP left…

Me too.

1. Sean
2. Payton

 

[Deucewildin]

The league didn’t catch up someone posted it perfectly . We don’t have the players to run it.

06-14 Colston was your big body recover in the middle of the field.

10-17 you had that fast TE Graham/Watson who could get behind the defense

07-16 you had slot receivers who were money on 3rd down : Lance Moore, Willie Snead.

We got Mike who as great as he was Payton O was not built for Outside WR that’s why you say him running the routes he ran. We’re built for between the numbers we had nobody who could make plays so he had to make adjustments..

 

[Icon]

TBH it wasn't really working all that well with Payton and Brees either:



The league caught up

It always cracks me up when some people act like most defensive coordinators somehow could never figure out how to stop Brees until the playoffs began, and then some magic light bulb would come on in January.

If the guy was so easy to stop with his "noodle arm" or "defenses not having to respect the deep ball", we wouldn't have seen multiple 11 to 13 win seasons in a row.

Jared Cook completely turned that game around with his fumble late in the 3rd qtr. Otherwise the Saints potentially go up 14 on that drive. And neither of the 2 second half interceptions probably happen since the offensive approach probably would have been very different.

 

[Louie18914]

Dennis Allen never wanted Pete Carmichael the Gimp as offensive coordinator and playcaller

The decision to have PC as OC was Loomis's decision with Gayles's urging

Loomis and Benson wanted continuality and awarding of 15 years of service

PC is Dennis savior dont go to jail card

end of the season, going to look bad on Loomis and Benson if they fire DA when the problem was the incompetent PC the Gimp and both their decision to force the Gimp on him

 

[saintsmarchin]

No...
3rd quarter first drive.. it works with short intermediate passes and designed plays.

Go back and count the HB screen plays since week 1

You'd be surprised

 

[Westbank4Life]

When was the last time the offense was actually good in the playoffs?

2011? It always feels like the offense strugglebus in the playoffs.

Yep 2011...man I never really sit down and thought about it but we struggled mightly on O post 2011 in the post season.

The illusion of winning the prior wildcard games (2013,2017 and 2018) masked it but they were stuggles also.