This should end all the Reggie to wide receiver talk. (1 Viewer)

[dwid]

This is an excellent post BTW.

The final paragraph raises a valid point, but even if a #1 or #2 corner are on Reggie it means that one of our talented receivers will have a better advantage.

Good stuff.

yes but i dont know how much he would help being lined up against a teams number 1 or 2 corner and how much help would the other receiver need. The question is Reggie good enough to draw double coverage as an outside receiver? If he is in the slot or runs in the flat for a pass then that draws in linebackers and safeties or maybe a nickel corner which means less people coming after whoever else is in the backfield or someone else like a tight end running a short route.

If you really want PT to get more carries Reggie in the slot or reggie the backfield along with PT would benefit PT more. It would leave less defenders there for linemen to block because they would have to worry about reggie catching a pass in space. The corners usually have to cover whoever is lined up and running routes against them regardless of who it is, unless they can see its a quick play thats not going in their direction.

It would actually benefit both of them and then when defenses start trying to play the pass in the flat or even put a smaller guy in there to go after reggie thats when you can give the ball to Heath Evans or PT to go up the middle and make them pay for it

And reggie going against corners is not going to extend his career, its from all the cuts that he has had to make which is hurting his knees, which im sure hed have to do as a wide receiver too, whether its running particular routes or trying to get yards after the catch.

I mean things are good the way they are, we have 3 guys that can definetly catch and run out the backfield (Reggie/PT/Evans) and one of those guys is listed as a fullback which means he can also block, plus we have a few other guys competing in training camp. We should definetly find more creative ways to get reggie the ball in space or runs that catch the defense off guard(because he needs a little more space than the other guys to run which our line is not very good at providing), but im not so sure that outside receiver is one of them. Slot receiver I am not against, but he still needs to get some carries

 

[GoldRush26]

And reggie going against corners is not going to extend his career, its from all the cuts that he has had to make which is hurting his knees, which im sure hed have to do as a wide receiver too, whether its running particular routes or trying to get yards after the catch.

Right that was part of my point. Reggie's injuries have come from his running style, as far as I can tell. Having him switch to WR isn't going to change a running style that he's been honing for years.

 

[meily]

GoldRush26 I'm with you on this 110%, you broke down TOT pretty good on page 3...he does have an agenda, I dont see how they think he will be such a good receiver when all his catches are 5-10yrds down field..he's a runningback plain and simple...a versatile one at that, and making him one demensional at a postion he's never played before hurts EVERYBODY...and Payton isnt even thinking about it this move, so why are we even arguing this, HE'S A RUNNINGBACK, with great hands, plain and simple.

 

[WhoDat99]

RB or WR, it doesn't matter. He's a hybrid back. Besides, do you think he'd actually agree fully to becoming a WR at this point in his career? He might "do what's best for the team", but he sure as well wouldn't be happy.

What needs to be discussed is how many carries he gets a game. IMO, given is injury prone nature, we should give him less touches between the tackles. We need him for all 19 games!

 

[WhoDat99]

Right that was part of my point. Reggie's injuries have come from his running style, as far as I can tell. Having him switch to WR isn't going to change a running style that he's been honing for years.

I don't get this logic. How long is the typical RB career in the NFL? What about WR?

 

[meily]

RB or WR, it doesn't matter. He's a hybrid back. Besides, do you think he'd actually agree fully to becoming a WR at this point in his career? He might "do what's best for the team", but he sure as well wouldn't be happy.

What needs to be discussed is how many carries he gets a game. IMO, given is injury prone nature, we should give him less touches between the tackles. We need him for all 19 games!

I dont think there is an exact number of carries he needs or doesnt need, he and Pierre need to split the load, now the load can differ from game to game, but Payton did a good job of getting both he and Duece 12-20 carries a game, I think he will do the same with Reggie and Pierre...how many touches is the least of our worries, Payton has done a good job with that, its this whole "Reggie will make a better receiver than runningback" that has me baffled.

 

[TurkeyOTooley]

GoldRush26 I'm with you on this 110%, you broke down TOT pretty good on page 3...he does have an agenda, I dont see how they think he will be such a good receiver when all his catches are 5-10yrds down field..he's a runningback plain and simple...a versatile one at that, and making him one demensional at a postion he's never played before hurts EVERYBODY...and Payton isnt even thinking about it this move, so why are we even arguing this, HE'S A RUNNINGBACK, with great hands, plain and simple.

Of course I have an agenda. So do you . . . let me guess you forked over a wad of cash for a Bush jersey and now your scared the undrafted free agent is going to take his position.

Well don't fear, my friend. Even though PT will shine as a running back, all is not lost for Reggie who can be quite a dynamic player in the right role. The role happens to be catching alot more passes.

Posters like dwid have come up with compelling arguments that don't necessarily match mine, but are reasonable in that they seem to recognize that Reggie is at his best catching passes and working in space. I do agree with dwid that Reggie should get some carries (i think 5-7 carries is a good number) but think that Reggie would have more longevity if didn't have to run between the tackles as much.

But I don't get you or Goldrush's arguments because you both seem to ignore obvious facts that other posters (who may not like the slot receiver idea) recognize and account for.

I think we are operating under different assumptions. You appear to be of the mindset that "if it's not broke, don't fix it." For me and select other posters, on the other hand, being ranked #1 offensively is a little illusory, especially if you watched the games. Don't get me wrong, I think our offense is very good. But I don't think the type of offense that we have seen the past two seasons (pass-heavy, run-and-shoot-esque) would survive against the best teams in the league.

Why?

Because we have been largely one-dimensional and many of our yards are padding. Generally, I believe in the effectiveness of running the football. Teams that are consistent winners play smart defense and know how to run the ball. Super Bowl winning teams that rely on heavy pass happy styles are rare. The only example that comes close recently is when the Rams won the SB against Tennessee with "the Greatest Show on Turf." However, it still isn't a perfect example because their D was better than advertised. The Patriots came close to breaking the norm in 2007 with their near-perfect season when they relied on the spread offense for most of the season. The Eagles have had considerable postseason success with a coach who is quite pass-happy, but they have also had a wicked defense and could run it when they have to with Westbrook.

The offensive style we play is aggressive and chaotic, but it is not an ideal match for the sorry defenses that we have had. Because of our pass-happy ways we have turned the ball over and teams have stalled our drives by gearing up for Brees. I believe that running the football is very important and if we can't run when we need to then the best defenses will manhandle us. They will let us rack up our yards, but will stifle us at the 20 yard line or force turnovers. Arizona was pass-happy all year, but got to the big game by wising up and running the football.

This is why I "have an agenda" for PT. He gives us the ability to have a physical presence on offense. With PT we can run when we need to. We can extend drives and punch in scores. We can give our defense rest by holding onto the ball and limiting turnovers (PT rarely fumbles). Payton does need to stick with the running game more, but having PT on the field gives our offense balance. PT (and other actual runners) should be getting more carries, not less.

But Reggie should see the field too. I think he could be a great weapon if his role was more focused on catching passes. I think that this would be best accomplished in the slot, but others make compelling arguments for keeping him in the backfield (if for mostly pass catching purposes). Whatever. If Reggie is catching the ball alot more than running it, then I would be happy with that.

(Sorry for the long post. I love SR, but I have got to chill out. I am trying to limit myself to one post a day. We will see how long I can hold out . . . .
Anyway, fire away at my post and I will mount a response tomorrow.)

 

[Paul]

Finally, a really good Reggie Bush thread. Please, continue. It's been years.

 

[USC#5]

Obviously I'm biased in some ways....but he was the best WR on USC back then..and if he did it full time, would be dominant....

But, I hope he stays at RB and obviously proves people wrong....but so far the only one being proved wrong is me...lol..I just can't help but think, and trust me Reggie says the same ****....there's no way Steve Slaton should be an NFL RB and he not be....but we'll see how it all unfolds...

Regardless, he should be used with more variety in the passing game...instead of the usual RB routes, that have him catch the ball within 5 yards of the LOS and usually standing still with his back to the defense.....rather, send him on 9 routes, 8's, 7's....the whole damn tree...obviously he's not going to be as good making the coverage reads as a FT receiver would...but if you have him motion out of the backfield, he doesn't have to be....and there isn't a CB in the league who can keep him off the line..

 

[nolafan33]

Why would you want Reggie to be a reciever?

You'd be making a 20 touch 132 yard guy into a 7 touch 70 yard guy, IMHO.

 

[USC#5]

no way he only gets 70 yards on 7 catches

 

[GoldRush26]

This is why I "have an agenda" for PT. He gives us the ability to have a physical presence on offense. With PT we can run when we need to. We can extend drives and punch in scores. We can give our defense rest by holding onto the ball and limiting turnovers (PT rarely fumbles). Payton does need to stick with the running game more, but having PT on the field gives our offense balance. PT (and other actual runners) should be getting more carries, not less.

But Reggie should see the field too. I think he could be a great weapon if his role was more focused on catching passes. I think that this would be best accomplished in the slot, but others make compelling arguments for keeping him in the backfield (if for mostly pass catching purposes). Whatever. If Reggie is catching the ball alot more than running it, then I would be happy with that.

(Sorry for the long post. I love SR, but I have got to chill out. I am trying to limit myself to one post a day. We will see how long I can hold out . . . .
Anyway, fire away at my post and I will mount a response tomorrow.)

Here's the problem; you're saying that Reggie would be even more effective mostly catching the ball as a WR-esque player. But how many catches does a WR typically get in a game??? 5 to 7 from what I can gather. I'm just not getting how this makes him MORE effective. If you want to argue to say that the team would be better off with him not running and doing nothing but catching those 7 passes or so a game, I and others would just appreciate if you just say so, instead of attempting to hide what you're really trying to say. Unless we are replacing all of his runs with catches, I don't see how he's MORE effective. I'll be modest and say we replace 3 of his runs with catches. That's 10 catches a week. That's absurd to think that he would be able to contribute that on a weekly basis.

While Reggie is not very good running the ball, saying he's a non-factor is hyperbole. He has had his difficulties, but we have seen him make some amazing runs that no one on our team could duplicate. When you say that he's given more of a chance than PT, you're absolutely right. That's because everyone can see that he has pure physical gifts that PT will never have. Why wouldn't they want to foster the development of the player with the higher upside????

If we had seen nothing from Reggie, then your assertion that he's never going to get better would have some merit. But we have the NYG, Cleveland, and Pittsburg games of '06. We have the Seattle and TB games of '07. We have the Carolina and ATL games of this past year. There were many more games in which he had respectable rushing averages. That doesn't support being a "non factor." The thing is that Reggie is usually boom or bust. Whe he's good running the ball he's usually very good. When he's bad he's absolutely horrid, like 10 carries for 4 yards horrid. There's not much in-between with him. Perhaps Payton is a little too stubborn in those situations and wants to keep feeding Reggie despite the results, but he's the coach.

Now If you want to look at PT's running production and say that you'd rather have him touching the ball than Reggie, that's fine. But that's no reason to continue with this "Reggie would be more effective as strictly a pass catcher" because that doesn't make much sense when you look carefully at what that entails.