Those that pray ... (1 Viewer)

Zack Lee

VIP Contributor
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
24,137
Reaction score
37,598
Location
a van down by the river
Offline
What is your take on Genesis 1:27?
In the NIV and NLT, "man" was replaced with "mankind" and "human beings" respectively to go with the times, but all of the other versions say "God created man in his own image". What do you think this image is?

I think there are some good esoteric messages in the Bible that get lost on most. But those books were chosen by men and some were left out by men. It’s not my first source for anything.
 

dgrant

Veteran Starter
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
624
Reaction score
792
Offline
i think many skeptics would be a bit more willing to cede the point if prayer people added caveats like "Prayer works FOR ME"
that would be much harder to argue against since it would be difficult to disprove
but 'prayer works' is rather easy to disprove and anecdotal evidence even exists in this thread

so many things we work like that
yoga works, atkins diet works, ployamory works, the stock market works, et al
none of those are completely true statement since there is so much counter evidence
but those things with "for me" could very well be true
Prayer works for me, and everyone I know personally, that has tried it, in a beneficial way.
 

SystemShock

uh yu ka t'ann
VIP Contributor
Joined
Dec 23, 2011
Messages
13,234
Reaction score
18,774
Location
Xibalba
Offline
I think there are some good esoteric messages in the Bible that get lost on most. But those books were chosen by men and some were left out by men. It’s not my first source for anything.
Those books were written by men as well.

What sort of esoteric messages are you referring to? I'd think a perfect deity's message would be perfect, and should be clear to all.
 

Zack Lee

VIP Contributor
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
24,137
Reaction score
37,598
Location
a van down by the river
Offline
Those books were written by men as well.

What sort of esoteric messages are you referring to? I'd think a perfect deity's message would be perfect, and should be clear to all.

mostly that which aligns almost perfectly with what Buddhists believe. I’m not the one you want to debunk bible with, it’s just not my book. There is wisdom there but you have to sort through too much useless to find it.
 
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Messages
1,535
Reaction score
2,780
Age
57
Location
Carriere Ms
Offline
plenty of situations where mother doesn't know father and father has no idea
impregnator is not the same as 'father' correct?
You are speaking about the way things happen here and not by the things that would apply to our creator. That’s ok because that’s all you or I know. But if our creator(God) was able to breathe life into our lungs and provide us with everything we needed to survive(food,water and shelte) don’t you think he could do things we don’t understan?
 

guidomerkinsrules

W H A T E V I R
VIP Contributor
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
64,536
Reaction score
107,460
Location
by the cemeteries
Online
You are speaking about the way things happen here and not by the things that would apply to our creator. That’s ok because that’s all you or I know. But if our creator(God) was able to breathe life into our lungs and provide us with everything we needed to survive(food,water and shelte) don’t you think he could do things we don’t understan?
i think we don't understand anything an infinite being/energy does
i do understand that describing infinite in finite terms (like assigning a gender) makes zero sense
 

SystemShock

uh yu ka t'ann
VIP Contributor
Joined
Dec 23, 2011
Messages
13,234
Reaction score
18,774
Location
Xibalba
Offline
mostly that which aligns almost perfectly with what Buddhists believe. I’m not the one you want to debunk bible with, it’s just not my book. There is wisdom there but you have to sort through too much useless to find it.
I am just asking you for your opinion. Won't ask again.
 

Zack Lee

VIP Contributor
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
24,137
Reaction score
37,598
Location
a van down by the river
Offline
I am just asking you for your opinion. Won't ask again.

Well I didn’t mean for it to sound harsh. I simply don’t try to argue it one way or the other. I was an agnostic - always felt it was foolish to believe just because someone told you you should or to do so “blindly”. You would also be a fool to just not want to believe - after all that’s big promises they sell.

my position now is just that there is a grander scheme than just me. I feel like things flow for us when we are aligned with something bigger. Cells in a body are happier when they are serving their purpose toward the bigger picture. When we are all about ourselves we are like cancer cells and those cells aren’t happy, nor are all the cells adjacent to them. I don’t have the answers and I’m not searching for them particularly hard. I am ok with the mystery.

now where Buddhism is concerned I think it’s just really good psychology and science now agrees with that. I don’t believe in reincarnation and neither do many if not most Buddhists. And when you strip that away it’s more psychology or philosophy than religion. And I believe it is a path to happiness. I also believe that Jesus would have agreed with all that Buddha taught.
 
Last edited:

HoustonSaint68

Subscribing Member
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Subscribing Member
Platinum VIP Contributor
Joined
Oct 21, 2001
Messages
5,381
Reaction score
4,323
Offline
I’m not religious, and still believe in the power of prayer.
This for me.

Yeah, I definitely do pray (or rather send very directed positive thoughts out into the universe) when asked although I admit that occasionally the list gets so long I fall asleep during the process. For those dealing with something serious and immediate I try to “vibe” positively in a directed way throughout the day.
 
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Messages
1,535
Reaction score
2,780
Age
57
Location
Carriere Ms
Offline
There’s something else I wanted to add about my faith. I believe God put everything on earth for us to use in one way or another. I smoke weed or thc and I really don’t care about getting high. I do it for pain relief. I have degenerative disk disease that has been a pain in my butt for a long time and no I’m in the early stages of degenerative joint disease and both are very painful. I’ve also been told that I have a defective gene that gives me a high tolerance to pain, pain pills, alcohol and other things. The only pain medication that helps me for a short period of time is hydromorphone. Imagine going into your Dr and with a straight face asking for a prescription for that. So weed does help me if I don’t let the pain get to bad before I use som.
I know there are a lot of people that may think I’m sinning by smoking but I don’t do it in front of anyone other than my wife. I didn’t want to be talking about my faith and misleading anyone by what I might say on another thread.
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
1,913
Reaction score
1,472
Location
Florida
Offline
There’s something else I wanted to add about my faith. I believe God put everything on earth for us to use in one way or another. I smoke weed or thc and I really don’t care about getting high. I do it for pain relief. I have degenerative disk disease that has been a pain in my butt for a long time and no I’m in the early stages of degenerative joint disease and both are very painful. I’ve also been told that I have a defective gene that gives me a high tolerance to pain, pain pills, alcohol and other things. The only pain medication that helps me for a short period of time is hydromorphone. Imagine going into your Dr and with a straight face asking for a prescription for that. So weed does help me if I don’t let the pain get to bad before I use som.
I know there are a lot of people that may think I’m sinning by smoking but I don’t do it in front of anyone other than my wife. I didn’t want to be talking about my faith and misleading anyone by what I might say on another thread.

I don't see why taking a prescription pain medication is acceptable, while taking a natural herb is considered taboo. You would think health conscious people would prefer natural remedies, verses man-made chemical substitutes in a pill form; Religious people included.

That's not to say, taking prescription drugs are bad, just pointing out that there are natural medicines available.

If people are having troubles with praying, this would make a good outline, on how to pray in the Christian faith. Notice how the prayer is relying totally on what God wants?!?!


Matthew 6:7-13



7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9 “This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,[a]
but deliver us from the evil one.[b]’
 

kizzy821

#1 BandWagon Fan
VIP Contributor
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
3,471
Reaction score
6,020
Offline
For the longest time I co-signed the belief amongst cigarette smokers that smoking helped calm their nerves.

To this day when I get upset or stressed, I have to smoke a cigarette before I can address the situation. But years ago I realized that it wasn't really the cigarette helping me, it was the breathing.

The deliberate inhaling and exhaling you do when smoking. That's where the calming effect comes from.

It doesn't always work. Depending on how wound up I am, 1000 deliberate breaths wouldn't calm me down.

But that's how I view prayers. I think the perception that they work has more to do with the prayee deliberately organizing their thoughts; focusing on what they want.

In some cases, deciding on a preferred outcome and expressing the desire for it to happen.

In other cases, they might ask a question ('What should I do/Show me the way') and make themselves available to receive an answer.

I don't think god is listening or guiding them. An answer to a dilemma means you had your head and heart open to receive one. Any perceived benefits of prayer are of their own doing.

But they don't realize it because they set out to get help from god. So if the help materializes, surely it must've come from him.

If I say a cigarette calms me down. Then I smoke one and become calm, surely it must've been the cigarette...

When prayers aren't answered, it's like 1000 deliberate breaths when I'm wound too tight (it won't make a difference and I'll have to find some other way to achieve calm).

In any event, when people ask me to pray for them, I say ok but I don't do it. If believing I can positively impact their situation might help them achieve their preferred outcome, then I let them believe it.
 

guidomerkinsrules

W H A T E V I R
VIP Contributor
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
64,536
Reaction score
107,460
Location
by the cemeteries
Online
For the longest time I co-signed the belief amongst cigarette smokers that smoking helped calm their nerves.

To this day when I get upset or stressed, I have to smoke a cigarette before I can address the situation. But years ago I realized that it wasn't really the cigarette helping me, it was the breathing.

The deliberate inhaling and exhaling you do when smoking. That's where the calming effect comes from.

It doesn't always work. Depending on how wound up I am, 1000 deliberate breaths wouldn't calm me down.

But that's how I view prayers. I think the perception that they work has more to do with the prayee deliberately organizing their thoughts; focusing on what they want.

In some cases, deciding on a preferred outcome and expressing the desire for it to happen.

In other cases, they might ask a question ('What should I do/Show me the way') and make themselves available to receive an answer.

I don't think god is listening or guiding them. An answer to a dilemma means you had your head and heart open to receive one. Any perceived benefits of prayer are of their own doing.

But they don't realize it because they set out to get help from god. So if the help materializes, surely it must've come from him.

If I say a cigarette calms me down. Then I smoke one and become calm, surely it must've been the cigarette...

When prayers aren't answered, it's like 1000 deliberate breaths when I'm wound too tight (it won't make a difference and I'll have to find some other way to achieve calm).

In any event, when people ask me to pray for them, I say ok but I don't do it. If believing I can positively impact their situation might help them achieve their preferred outcome, then I let them believe it.
That’s kind of profound
Thank you for adding this
 

HoustonSaint68

Subscribing Member
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Subscribing Member
Platinum VIP Contributor
Joined
Oct 21, 2001
Messages
5,381
Reaction score
4,323
Offline
But that's how I view prayers. I think the perception that they work has more to do with the prayee deliberately organizing their thoughts; focusing on what they want.

In some cases, deciding on a preferred outcome and expressing the desire for it to happen.

In other cases, they might ask a question ('What should I do/Show me the way') and make themselves available to receive an answer.

I don't think god is listening or guiding them. An answer to a dilemma means you had your head and heart open to receive one. Any perceived benefits of prayer are of their own doing.
I personally suspect this is true, but don't completely discount the possibility of some quantum mechanical influence of prayer -- the collective methodology of which one might call 'God'. Which makes the way I pray a bit weird perhaps.

In addition, I think there quite often is a positive personal impact on the pray-er. Worst case scenario, you're taking time out of the day to focus on someone other than yourself and your own personal wants, needs and problems -- which is a net positive for anyone, I think.

But, no, I don't believe that there is some all-knowing being reading my thoughts and deciding to intervene positively for another being if the collective reaches some magical prayer total. Rather, in these crazy days, I more and more find myself viewing the ultimate benefit of the traditional singular, all-knowing, all-powerful God entity as being that all the total butt crevasses out there will get what's coming to them. Not exactly that most Christian of takes.
 

woohoosaint

Hall-of-Famer
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
5,829
Reaction score
8,471
Location
Arkansas via uptown N.O.
Online
You don't get in trouble because God denies you what you want as a parent figure, you get in trouble due to your craving or aversion for events or things. We are here to learn and to teach. Once those things are accomplished it's the end of our time.

It is said that our Essence dwells for a time in the Sprit world, but then must descend to the material realms to learn, or to assist others to learn. Our spirit picks its path here knowing the parents who will birth it, and all the trials and triumphs it will face. We are not allowed to speak of the World outside this one, and so as we prepare for birth the Angel presses it's finger to our lips and says "Shhh". This gesture leaves the indentation under our nose and ensures our silence.

God is more like a therapist than a parent. He/she is not here to tell you exactly what you should or should not do, but rather help you make that choice for yourself. The Buddha was once asked why his teaching appeared contradictory. He said "If you're walking down the road and you're about to fall into a ditch on the right side, I'll say 'go left. If you're about to fall into a ditch on the left, I'll say 'go right"

"Be still and know that I am..."
Alright...I didn't intend to get into a theological debate.
And I apologize for just getting back to you on this (it's been an extremely grueling work week)...but here goes nothing...
1) Where in my quoted post did I say or imply that you "get in trouble because God denies you what you want as a parent figure"

2) I believe that God is my Creator and my parents are my earthly creators. That is the link in MY belief that God is my ultimate parent.

3) I also view God as my therapist in the manner that I can pray to Him/talk to Him and relieve my soul in doing so.

4) We're probably never going to agree on this.
I was simply stating MY belief...while at the same time I would NEVER say that you're wrong about YOUR beliefs.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users who are viewing this thread

 

New Orleans Saints Twitter Feed

 

Headlines

Top Bottom